Blue Rams

[Importskyline22]

I just got a pair of rams. Not sure of the sex of either one yet, Hopeing that there male and female. But Anyways.

I put them into my 55g today at about noon. WHen i put them in they hid(like normal) BUt they are also seem to be breathing heavy. THere Gills and mouth are just moving very rapidly.

My question is. IS this normal for cichlids? These are the first cichlids. Do they normally breath this way? Or are they jsut stressed.

Also, they are a greyish color right now, there yellow/blue is just starting to show, IS this also stress. Or is this because there juvi's?

THanks for your input!

[KingOfTheDeep]

how did you acclimate them?

they are pretty sensative to water quality, what are your params?

females have a pink belly

[Importskyline22]

I acclimated them by floating the bad for awhile. Then adding a bit of my tank water to the bag in like 5-10 min. intervals until the water pretty much over flowed.

My params are as follows.

Ammo: 0
Nitrate:5
Nitrite: 0

I hope they will be ok :(

[Importskyline22]

I have a schdualed water change tomorrow. Hopefully that will help.

I also noticed on one the two fins that are under its chest.... one of which on its left side is only half there :(

[fishcatch22]

they could still just be acclimating. they are very intolerant of sudden changes, they will most likely warm up soon.

[Importskyline22]

they could still just be acclimating. they are very intolerant of sudden changes, they will most likely warm up soon.

Ok. im just worried.

These are the fish i have wanted forever. I would hate for something to happen to them :(

[qwiksilvertrav]

Blue rams are VERY difficult to take care of and are really sensitive to water parameters. I had my first two die on me after having them around 4 months.
Females have red on their bellies like someone said.
If they start to lose color and don't have the that shiney blue shine to them, your in trouble and have to adjust the water parameters.
They like a lower ph also, in the high 6 range.

Mine hid at first too and that's normal, after a while they'll come out of hiding and swim around regularly. Mine are really social now but hid for the first few days I got them.
Overall just make sure they're eating.

[Importskyline22]

Well....

I woke up this morning and they are both dead :(

Thanks for the help thou

[Star_Rider]

where did you purchase the fish from?
how long has your tank been set up?
some 'delicate'(I use this loosely as rams can be mean buggers when everything is well in the tank) do better in established tanks.
what is your tanks temp?
rams like warm water 84 seems to work well for them

have you tried bolivian rams? they are not quite as colorful..tho they do have some bright colors when they are ready to spawn.

they tend to be hardier than the blues and more adaptable to water that might be a bit out of spec. the blues do prefer a lower pH or more acidic water.
the bolivian s can stay in cooler water but IME they colorup nicely on warm water..I keep mine in tanks at 82-86 and they stay colored longer.

s in any tank you should be doing water changes weekly..with the blues you may benefit by doing WC twice a week.

I am tempted to try some blue rams with my discus(after quarantine) .......

but I do like my bolivian rams..

[Importskyline22]

where did you purchase the fish from?
how long has your tank been set up?
some 'delicate'(I use this loosely as rams can be mean buggers when everything is well in the tank) do better in established tanks.
what is your tanks temp?
rams like warm water 84 seems to work well for them



It has been set up since christmas.
I got them from a well respected LFS with people who really know there stuff.
THe temp was at 80

I Think the problem might have been is i noticed they had a case of ich. But i didnt care cause i have wanted blue rams for so long. So i just bought them and when i put them in my 55g. I dosed my ich treatment.

My fish that are in there now just recently recoverd from an ich outbreak so it was techinicly still under treatment.

They problably died bbecause of the ich :(

[fishcatch22]

It has been set up since christmas.
I got them from a well respected LFS with people who really know there stuff.
THe temp was at 80

I Think the problem might have been is i noticed they had a case of ich. But i didnt care cause i have wanted blue rams for so long. So i just bought them and when i put them in my 55g. I dosed my ich treatment.

My fish that are in there now just recently recoverd from an ich outbreak so it was techinicly still under treatment.

They problably died bbecause of the ich :(yes. you shouldn't have bought them. if I saw a true l-46 zebra pleco for $20 and it had ich, I wouldn't buy it.

[Importskyline22]

Yea....i know. But i have watned them for soooo long so bad. :sad:

Ill be....! THe fish i had might just have been Bolvian Rams. After looking at pictures online after it was metioned. My rams were very pale/grey looking like those but yet had the blue irredecents(sp?). COuld it be? Cause the tank at the LFS just said "Rams".

I was wondering why they didnt have the yellows and reds liek i thought the blue rams did....hmmm..

[Cathy G]

Blue rams are notoriously sensitive to medications and respond well with heat and a little salt. The ich medication probably killed them...
Cathy

[Importskyline22]

Blue rams are notoriously sensitive to medications and respond well with heat and a little salt. The ich medication probably killed them...
Cathy

I guess i shoudl have done my homework first :read:

[fishcatch22]

I guess i shoudl have done my homework first :read:yes.. NEVER just buy a fish if it has a disease, no matter how bad you want it.

[Eryn]

The symptoms you're descibing, rapid breathing and loss of color, don't sound like ich, which wouldn't kill that fast. They most likely died of osmotic and/or pH shock--rams are very sensitive to new acclimations. The water was likely different enough that they keeled over from that.

[Importskyline22]

The symptoms you're descibing, rapid breathing and loss of color, don't sound like ich, which wouldn't kill that fast. They most likely died of osmotic and/or pH shock--rams are very sensitive to new acclimations. The water was likely different enough that they keeled over from that.

Well. when ever i decide to by new rams. What would be the best way to acclimate them?

[Eryn]

Well. when ever i decide to by new rams. What would be the best way to acclimate them?

First of all, it helps if the LFS water and your water is not very different to begin with. But even if there is a bit of a difference, the drip method works well, in my experience.

Float the bag in the tank (for temp.) and set a large plastic cup filled with your tank water on the lamp above the tank, with a piece of airline tubing letting out drops of water into a bag (make a hole near the bottom of the cup). If you don't have a flat lamp above the tank, you can run a longer piece of airline tubing from the tank to a bucket below the tank, and put the bag inside the bucket. Once you start the siphon into the bucket (not the bag), you can tie a knot in the tubing so the water will then drip slowly into the bag. With either method, I'd let the amount of water in the bag double (you may have to remove some of the original water) and then test for pH and GH/KH. If the water still isn't the same on both of these params, remove half the water in the bag and do it again until it is. Set the drops so it takes about an hour or so for the water to double, at least the first time -- so it really gives them a lot of time to acclimate. Also make sure the bag doesn't cool off if you are using the bucket method (you can add warmer water into the bucket around the bag).

My LFS has water that isn't very different from my tanks, so I don't really know what the limit is on how different the water can be for rams. It usually only takes me 1.5-2 hours to acclimate a new fish. But I've never lost a new fish using this acclimation method.

I also have another theory on why rams die like that -- but only if your tank water is more basic than the water they came in. Rams are VERY sensitive to ammonia, and the higher the pH, the more toxic the ammonia is. So even with the smallest amount of ammonia in your tank, if your pH was more than about 6.8, the toxic effects (maybe along with the medicine, ich, etc.) could have affected their gills. Here's an interesting link: http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-discussions.html

Good luck! Rams are such gorgeous, interesting little fish -- I hope you get a chance to try again. Mine are breeding, but I've only taken out one batch of eggs so far -- and that's when I learned about the high pH/toxic ammonia effect. (I left some baby food in too long, and my water pH is pretty high for ram fry at 6.8, so I lost them all.)

[Importskyline22]

THanks so much for the info!

I might just order them instead of getting them from that LFS(the only one around me that has rams).

THats my first time buying fish from them and it could be that there water is very differnt from mine.

[Eryn]

THanks so much for the info!

I might just order them instead of getting them from that LFS(the only one around me that has rams).

THats my first time buying fish from them and it could be that there water is very differnt from mine.

Could be. And if the fish had ich...

Still, I'd test whatever water the fish do come in so you know how different it is from yours and how careful you have to be. :) good luck!

[odannyboy]

i think you were unfortunatly too keen and also didnt get the best rams out there.some say rams are tough some say delicate.i think its safe to say they need very good care but more over its the standard of fidh that varies the most.unfortunatly.imo your tank should have been up and running for about six months to definatly iron out and water issues. better luck next time.

[Star_Rider]

do yourself and your fish a service. get a quarantine tank.

I have one running all the time..I usually keep a charged filter floating in an established healthy tank.

I now quarantine all my fish.

set the tank up prior to getting new fish..I use sponge filters for my Q tanks.

the sponges float in the transition of my sump and are fully charged with bacteria when I need them..when I'm done I sterilize the sponge and stick it back in the sump.

I treat almost all my new fish with parasite meds and sometimes anti biotics.

the water in the q tank is changed daily in the least every 48 hrs(partial water changes)

after about 6-8 weeks you should be able to plop and drop then new fish.

when acclimating I usually do drip accimation. when moving fish between tanks..it's plop and drop.

also if you get blue rams..raise the temp..they like warm water.