View Full Version : Any help/advice for a newb would be appreciated.
I have read most of the important stickies, and I know about cycling my tank. I know that some fish get very big, and that I should not buy a fish that gets to big and plan on selling or giving it back to my lfs when it gets to big. Or tossing it in a canal or lake.
I have just set up a 55 gallon tank freshwater tank. Right now there is one catfish, don't know exactly what kind of catfish, but there doesnt seem to be anything special looking about it, it costed me $4 at Petsmart. Also a common pleco, the kind that are in canals and lakes down here in Florida, the pleco was $3 at Walmart, and a few snales that I bought from Petsmart. I bought two 25lb bags of white sand for my substrate, I know the sand (especially white) is harder to keep clean, but to me it looks much nicer than little rocks/pebbles. I bought some granite from Petsupermarket, and organized them very nicely around my tank, and I bought about 7 fake plants, 4 of which are in the tank now. I will add a picture of my tank as soon as I get use someone's camera.
For filtration I have a 350 Magnum canister, and A Marineland Emperor 280 Bio-wheel, so I definitely have more than enough filtration. I am in the process of cycling the tank, its been cycling now for about 3 days. Even though this is my first tank, I know a little bit about keeping fish. I had a vivarium type tank, with a certain reptile, and a few barbs, and my good friend has a few tanks, and I always ask him to many questions, because as you can tell it interests me.
Anyways. What I want to ask some of you more experienced fish keepers is, what kind of fish should I get for my tank? I like aggressive, yet good looking fish. I don't want a fish that is going to eat flakes it's whole life, I want something that I can give feeder fish to if I want to see some feeder fish get messed up and eaten. If there are fish that some of you think have good personalities, and are smart, then please tell me which ones. Also, I dont want to have just 1-3 fish in my tank, I would like to have about 4-6 fish. I dont mean to be rude saying fish arent worth money, but I DO NOT see the point of spending $600-700 on a tank, filters, and everything else, just to house one $10 fish.
So please, everyone give me their opinions on what I should put in my tank.
Thanks alot, Tony.
Or tossing it in a canal or lake.No!
Never ever do that.
Adding feral invasive species with ruin your local ecosystem.
J double R
01-30-2007, 6:40 AM
welcome to the addicting hobby of aquatics! that list of prerequisites for your fish you want is pretty difficult to fill. if you can find fish that fit the bill, and manage to not overstock your tank, i applaud you!
for example.. oscars are VERY smart, have great personalities, are beautiful (in my eyes anyway), and are always up for tearing up the occasional feeder.
however, they grow to a massive size of 12" or larger, which makes a 55 gallon tank a minimum to keep just ONE. so you fill everything but your fish quota.
Personally, ive always avoided 55 gallon tanks for the very reason that i enjoy owning fish that are colorful, aggressive, and have good personalities, and a 55 is pretty much the borderline for keeping things like oscars and cichlids, it is large enough to keep 1 or MAYBE 2, but not big enough to house any more than that (without serious health risks to the fish). 55 gallon tanks are great for a large peaceful community, like tetras, guppies, rasboras, etc.
as for the pleco, those fish can grow to be well over 14" in length, sometimes over the span of as little as a year. you should find a way to work out a deal with your LFS like i did, buy a small pleco originally, and when he grows toa length of 7 or 8", take him back to the LFS and exchange him for a new small one. this way, you get to grow your pleco, and the LFS gets to sell him for a MUCH larger profit to someone who has a tank that can house a fish that large. this is not normally done, i was only able to work this out with my LFS after a few YEARS of being a loyal customer and displaying my knowledge and understanding of proper fishkeeping. Your best bet is to ensure that the fish you buy WON'T outgrow the tank before you can get a bigger one, as that is the only sure means of the fish getting to a tank that is more suitable.
When you are choosing what kind of fish you want for your tank, research it here. You'll often find that a common-looking small fish will soon be over 12" or more! And most times, the LFS (or pet store, ie. petsmart, petco) will tell you that the fish will grow large, but not half as large as they really get, or they may even cater to your preferences and tell you that a 55 gallon tank IS ok for anything that you want.
my suggestion is to let the tank cycle for another week or 2, spend some time here browsing about the different types of fish you may want, and make an educated decision that benefits both you AND the fish you will buy. Your tank will turn out beautiful, your fish happy, and of course, you, the owner, pleased.
i don't think florida has much of a natural ecoystem enymore.... lol. not that that condones throwing any sort of domesticated species into wild waters. In doing something like that you can expect fines, tickets, even arrest! not to mention contributing to the detriment of the natrual ecosystem, as Omega already pointed out. Good on you for knowing that is NOT the route to take.
Good luck, and happy fishkeeping!
-Jon
Aquaken
01-30-2007, 8:46 AM
Look into african rift lake cichlids at www.cichlid-forum.com they are interesting and rambunctious. The mbuna are mostly vegetarians but a 55 gal tank would be perfect. The best part about africans are the number of fish you can put in. Most people stock them heavily to keep aggression levels down.
No!
Never ever do that.
Adding feral invasive species with ruin your local ecosystem.
Like I said I wasnt planning on doing that. But I honestly dont think it would make a difference in the ecosystem here, because its already pretty messed up. I can go bass fishing in a lake and catch oscars, JD's, african cichlids, knife fish, peacock bass, my friend even caught a 20 inch Pacu once. None of these fish are native. The common plecos are everywhere, seems like everytime you throw a cast net to try to get some bait, you will catch a big nasty looking pleco. The ecosystem here is already pretty messed up, with so many non-native species in the lakes and canals already, that I doubt the addition of one more fish would hurt a thing.
Back onto the topic of my tank. With african cichlids, I know they do not get as big as oscars. How big exactly would they get? I dont want to buy them as adults, I would like to get them as babies and watch them grow. When they do grow to adults, would they be able to eat feeder fish? When I was looking around at a few stores yesterday, the guy at the store told me that I could get ten of them in my tank, the baby ones ofcourse. I thought ten sounded like a little bit to much, but if I could do ten, that would be great. I also looked up a beautiful fish called an electric blue Jack Dempsey. I read that they get from 8-10 inches. This is a gorgeous fish, and quite expensive to, with a fish like that, would I be able to have anything else in the tank besides that fish? Is it to big?
One more thing. My tank has been running now for a few days. When do I have to start doing the waterchanges? And how much water do I have to change?
But I honestly dont think it would make a difference in the ecosystem here, because its already pretty messed up. I can go bass fishing in a lake and catch oscars, JD's, african cichlids, knife fish, peacock bass, my friend even caught a 20 inch Pacu once. None of these fish are native. The common plecos are everywhere, seems like everytime you throw a cast net to try to get some bait, you will catch a big nasty looking pleco. The ecosystem here is already pretty messed up, with so many non-native species in the lakes and canals already, that I doubt the addition of one more fish would hurt a thing.I strongly believe you should reconsider that logic.
That's like saying it's OK to litter because everyone else does.
They might be banning plecos for this very reason.
Mgamer20o0
01-30-2007, 6:24 PM
lol i agree. just because other people have tossed the fish in there is no reason for you to also.
Wow!!
Please tell me where I said that I plan on tossing a fish into a lake or canal? I clearly said that I know better than to buy a fish thats get to big. We have cane toads here in Florida, big nasty toads, that kill dogs, cats and many other things because of their toxins. They eat everything and nothing can hurt them, I dont want our waters to be like that. If a fish got to big for me, I would probably give it to someone who has a bigger tank, or give it back to the store that I got it from.
All I am saying is that it would not make a big difference, because it really wouldnt. Does this mean that everytime I go bass fishing, and catch an oscar, or a knife fish, that I have to kill it, because its not supposed to be there?
And thanks for the great advice from all of you, it helped me alot.
dmopar74
01-30-2007, 10:00 PM
ok first you are cycling a tank with fish in it, you dont see the problem with adding fish to the wild "even though u wouldnt do it", your pleco alone will outgrow a 55g, want to feed feeder fish(hello diseases!) to a predatory fish but dont want to pay for the proper accomodations. ithink if you want to take this hobby seriously you should research:read: before you do anything more and realize that it isnt cheap! im not trying to bash you but you ask for our opinions and this is mine. you should check out monsterfishkeepers.com for great info on predatory fish and the proper food for them.:thm:
Omega
01-30-2007, 11:36 PM
Does this mean that everytime I go bass fishing, and catch an oscar, or a knife fish, that I have to kill it, because its not supposed to be there?Yes.
Either that or keep it.
I'm sure you would kill every single fish, every single time you go fishing. Either that or you are just a millionaire, with twenty empty 100 gallon tanks, just waiting for fish that you are about to go catch.
Are you seriously going to tell me that if you, an obvious fish lover, would kill just about every fish you catch when you go bass fishing? Be real.
dmopar74
01-31-2007, 12:34 AM
:mad: non-native fish should be rid of or they could ruin the eco-system of that body of water. they are like diseases, they could eventually take it over killing everything else. that is why you ALWAYS catch oscars etc. but hey whats one more?
ok first you are cycling a tank with fish in it, you dont see the problem with adding fish to the wild "even though u wouldnt do it", your pleco alone will outgrow a 55g, want to feed feeder fish(hello diseases!) to a predatory fish but dont want to pay for the proper accomodations. ithink if you want to take this hobby seriously you should research:read: before you do anything more and realize that it isnt cheap! im not trying to bash you but you ask for our opinions and this is mine. you should check out monsterfishkeepers.com for great info on predatory fish and the proper food for them.:thm:
What do you mean by paying for proper accomodations?
I am not worried about my pleco getting to big, this pleco was in a vivarium type tank before the tank its in now. I have had it for about 3 months, and I have noticed hardly any growth in the fish at all. And like I said before, I will bring it back to my lfs once it gets to big. Most of the people I have talked to have told me that once they get bigger they make more of a mess than they do clean anyways. I have done research, I have read lots of websites trust me. Even though I have read alot, I still want to hear the opinions of different people, not just what a website says.
Thanks for the link.
:mad: non-native fish should be rid of or they could ruin the eco-system of that body of water. they are like diseases, they could eventually take it over killing everything else. that is why you ALWAYS catch oscars etc. but hey whats one more?
Here we go again.
When did I say I was going to put non-native fish in the wild? Yes I said there is nothing wrong with it, with certain fish there isnt, with certain ones there is. There are already tons of cichlids in the waters down here, I personally do not think that it would make a difference if one more was in the water. Thats like me buying a pet cane toad, and releasing it, it would not make any difference, cause there are already so many. As for fish like Pacus, piranhas, knife fish, and other fish that there are not that many of, no, I think it would be a terrible idea to put a fish like that in a lake or canal. There is no possible way we can get rid of the cichlids in our waters, cause there are so many. Other fish like the ones I mentioned I think we could be able to get rid of, or at least prevent from spreading anymore, therefore I do not think its a good idea to put a fish like that in the wild.
This is ridiculous. I come here for some friendly advice, and all I am getting is bashed. I wanted to ask a few opinions, is that to much to ask for?
dmopar74
01-31-2007, 12:50 AM
well a common pleco should hit 18" or more full grown, if yours isnt growing you proboably have stunted its growth by not providing the proper accomodations and you stated that you didnt want to spend alot of money on tanks etc. or whatever for 10$ fish. my pleco went from 2.5" to 12" in six months and is still growing strong.
danzig
01-31-2007, 12:56 AM
personally ide put a couple JD's in the 55g.
well a common pleco should hit 18" or more full grown, if yours isnt growing you proboably have stunted its growth by not providing the proper accomodations and you stated that you didnt want to spend alot of money on tanks etc. or whatever for 10$ fish. my pleco went from 2.5" to 12" in six months and is still growing strong.
Not providing the proper accomodations for a pleco, and I stunted its growth? Good one. I dont know why the pleco isnt growing. I have 3 snails in my tank, maybe they are eating to much algae? I usually brush the glass everyday to get the algae off it, that could be why, I also have what I think are two good filters. I never said I didnt want to spend alot of money, I have already spent alot of money, it has costed me over $700 for this tank that I have right now. Putting money into the tank is not a big deal, as long as it turns out nice. I did say that I didnt want to spend $700 on a tank, and then buy one oscar, I might as well go out and buy a nice German Shephard with that money. I said that I wanted to have a few fish, maybe 4-6.
dmopar74
01-31-2007, 1:16 AM
[quote=TI44;759056]Not providing the proper accomodations for a pleco, and I stunted its growth? Good one. I dont know why the pleco isnt growing.
please tell me you know that it really is easy to stunt a fish's growth with poor water quality, which you cant tell by looking at the water. any other experienced and educated hobbyist knows these things. i am meerely trying to point out some things you might need to learn before adding more fish to your tank. dont be a smart *** by saying good one when this is fact. as i recall you are the one asking questions in the newbie area.
Good point, thanks.
Just tested my water. My PH is perfect, at 7.0, ammonia was 0.5, Nitrites are kinda high, at about 1.5, and my Nitrates are at about 30 ppm.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, please. If I read and remember correctly, then what I have going on right now is normal.
dmopar74
01-31-2007, 1:33 AM
ideally you want 0 ammonia and nintrites and some nitrates 40 or less, but your tank is still cycling right? im not really good at explaining the cycle so someone else should. sorry if i was sounding cocky just trying to help( i get hot headed though). best of luck:thm:
Its all good.
Yes my tank is still cycling. I tend to feed the catfish a little bit to much, that is probably why my ammonia is high, I will cutback on the feeding for now.
Are you seriously going to tell me that if you, an obvious fish lover, would kill just about every fish you catch when you go bass fishing? Be real.As a fish lover, yes I would kill any feral fish I caught, either that or put them back into captivity. I would be saving so many more native species that would have otherwise be eaten by it.
I don't think you really understand how devastating feral species are. It's one of the largest threats to this planet's biodiversity. An educated animal lover should be able to grasp this concept.
Rbishop
01-31-2007, 4:24 AM
Good point, thanks.
Just tested my water. My PH is perfect, at 7.0, ammonia was 0.5, Nitrites are kinda high, at about 1.5, and my Nitrates are at about 30 ppm.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, please. If I read and remember correctly, then what I have going on right now is normal.
Let's all offer our help to TI44 and try to save the debate on non-native species for another thread, so this one can stay on topic.
Back in post seven you asked when to start water changes. With the above post on readings, you are overdue since you are in a fishey cycle.
You should be doing water changes to keep ammonia and niTRITES below .25, even if this means large changes and more than one a day.
As your bacteria grow to accomodate the current biological load, the frequency of changes will space out until you are at a weekly pace. Depending on your end stocking and type of fish, along with amount of filtration, will determine what size.
Add new fish slowly over a period of time to let the bacteria grow to the new bio load.
3-4 nice looking aggessive fish, that can eat feeders once in a while? JDs, red terrors, GTs, firemouths and probably dozens of others. Though you could be setting yourself up for needing to upgrade rather quickly. I have a 90 set up that way. Sometimes it just comes down to the personality of the fish involved in the tank, not the species overall characteristics. HTH
Thanks alot, I will do a water change today. When I was getting ready to fill up my tank, my buddy who helped me told me that well water, would be much better for the tank than city water. I dont know if anyone knows or not, but well water in South Florida, is not like well water up north, its pretty nasty water. The well water smells like canal and lake water. Most houses have a well for the sprinkler system, and city water for drinking.
So, my friend told me well water is better for my fish because it will already have some of the bacteria etc. in it, can anyone here verify that?
Thanks.
sanfran94107
01-31-2007, 12:56 PM
I don't know this for a fact, but your well water could contain substances harmful to fish. I would test the well water before using it. It may be fine to use after treating.
Let's all offer our help to TI44 and try to save the debate on non-native species for another thread, so this one can stay on topic.
Back in post seven you asked when to start water changes. With the above post on readings, you are overdue since you are in a fishey cycle.
You should be doing water changes to keep ammonia and niTRITES below .25, even if this means large changes and more than one a day.
As your bacteria grow to accomodate the current biological load, the frequency of changes will space out until you are at a weekly pace. Depending on your end stocking and type of fish, along with amount of filtration, will determine what size.
Add new fish slowly over a period of time to let the bacteria grow to the new bio load.
3-4 nice looking aggessive fish, that can eat feeders once in a while? JDs, red terrors, GTs, firemouths and probably dozens of others. Though you could be setting yourself up for needing to upgrade rather quickly. I have a 90 set up that way. Sometimes it just comes down to the personality of the fish involved in the tank, not the species overall characteristics. HTH
So you think I can put 3-4 Jack Dempseys in there? I think I might do that. One thing though. You told me that when I get fish, slowly put them in. I know most cichlids are aggressive fish, and I will most likely end up getting cichlids. But, when you put one aggressive fish, wont it take over and claim the water that he is in as his/her territory? That means if I have two fish in the tank, and add two more, the two new ones will be enemies to the ones that were there before them because all the water is his/her territory. Correct me if I a wrong, this is just what I have heard.
jm1212
01-31-2007, 8:52 PM
for a 55 go with 4 firemouths because they stay smaller than others and have the great red throats. you may even get a spawning pair