White cloudy water

[Aries]

I have a 30G tank medium planted tank with a 96W CF 1" above tank, fluval 404 at half capacity, 3 zebras, 3 labs, and 5 sae. I add 1/2 TSP of KN03 with dosings of 4ML of Iron and 4ML of Trace elements 3 times a week. I do 40%-50% water changes every saturday. I feed once a day with no left over food at 5PM. Lites on at 11.30AM to 9.30PM (10 hours).

Levels:
Ammonia 0ppm
NitrIte 0 ppm
NitrAte 0 ppm
PH Lites On 7.5
PH Lites Off 7.3
KH 15
GH 18
CO2 = 14.23 (I am raising this slowly to see effects on tank, small turn every water change to get it at goal of 20 to 22 ppm)

I have cloudy white water, and for the most part have always had it to a small extent. But now it is worse lately. Is this just a bacteria bloom or is it something worse. THis has been going on badly for about 3 weeks now (which is why I am worried). After a water change it does great and is clear, but two days later it is back to its cloudy self. The plants grow great and the fish are acting normal and playful and eat aggressively.

If there is anything I can do? Please help, it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Aries

[Tempest]

Is this a relatively new tank? And do you have access to any other planted tanks?

[Aries]

It has been set up for over a year working properly. I have a very sparsely planted 29G tank with no plant keeping ammenities (like CO2, lites, or good gravel-but it grows very well).

[Tempest]

I know newer tanks can be subject to this a lot of times and Wetman had suggested adding the clear water out of an established tank to help it out. The clear water contains the other microorganisms that are evidently trying to establish themselves in the cloudy tank. I can't give this a more scientific treatment as to names and such. It's not the nitrifiying bacteria though.

Sometimes green water and cloudy water can be mistaken for one another however. If you take a glass of water out of the tank and look at it in good light with a plain background does it still look a white cloudy or a green cloudy?

[Aries]

It is definately cloudy white.

[Tempest]

Wetman has quite a good section on cloudy water on his web site, The Skeptical Aquarist. Look down this page for his name and the site is linked in his profile.

Do you also feed the plants some more potassium in the form of KCl or K2SO4? The amount available in the KNO3 dosing usually isn't adequate. I also am curious as to your phosphate levels. You have very hard water and if your phosphate is also high, I suppose you could be getting calcium precipitation if your plants aren't scavenging it first. I'd check with the water dept on that if you dont have a test kit but that seems a bit far fetched, doesn't it? The plants will scavenge phosphate more economically if the potassium is kept up to a good level. Most of us with high light and CO2 added also have to dose phosphate if it doesn't come in with the tap water.

[Aries]

I think it might be the phosphate levels because I drastically cut down the feeding amount and the tank is still clear (about the time it would not be after the saturday water change). The fish do not like it, but that may be the culprit - after reading the high phosphate reply. Will check tommorrow as well as look further into the skeptical aquarist.

THanks for your help Tempest so far - like by a lot!

Aries

[Tempest]

Okay, but I don't think fish food was *quite* what I had in mind. :D I'd think your plants would suck up the phosphate in the fish food quite readily. I suppose that may depend on how much was in the tap water and how much you feed but I haven't heard of anyone with enough just from fish food to precipitate calcium from hard water.

[wetmanNY]

Originally posted by Aries
I have a 30G tank medium planted tank with a 96W CF 1" above tank, fluval 404 at half capacity, 3 zebras, 3 labs, and 5 sae. I add 1/2 TSP of KN03 with dosings of 4ML of Iron and 4ML of Trace elements 3 times a week. I do 40%-50% water changes every saturday.
KH 15
GH 18


Here's where the phosphate is coming from, aside from PO4 that may be in your tapwater (they put it in mine, anyway). Twenty-four milliliters of fertilizers goes into 30 nominal gallons (less in fact, when you subtract gravel etc.) every week, and less than half is removed. That's about 12 ml added, to a tank that you term moderately planted.

With a carbonate hardness of 15 degrees, you have to multiply that by 17.86 to get parts per million.

I think co-precipitation of phosphate with carbonates is at least a possibility to consider.

Why not withhold all fertilizing for a month and see whether plant growth is reduced to unacceptable levels.

[Aries]

I will try not using fertilizers and see what happens. It looks better now that I am not feeding as much - at least it is taking much longer to cloud up and is not clouding up as much.

Should I stop adding KNO3 (greenlight stump remover) as well? I dont think my fish product enough waste to feed the plants appropriately.

Here are some older pics (~1.5months) because I do not have access to my cheapy camera (an old FD-73). Once I get it back I will post new ones because it has grown a bit since then. Warning, this is a crudely made webpage (since I really dont know how to make one) and is all 640x480 pics

My Fish Webpage (www.wright.edu/~sanders.5/myfish.htm)

Thanks again

Aries

[wetmanNY]

Sparkling.

These are not good illustrations of any kind of problem, I'd say!

[Aries]

I will have to get newer pics because you are right, these do NOT show my problem. They were mainly used to show the amount of plants in my tank is all.

Hopefully get my camera back tomorrow :)

[Aries]

I have the new pictures and have tried to label them - mostly to no avail.

My new pics and stuff (http://www.wright.edu/~sanders.5/OnWeb/newpics.htm)

THanks HTH

Aries