Noob Stock Planning - like advice..

[pharasalia]

Hi everyone...

thank you for all who replied to my neon situation w/ the tank at work....

Now, onto my home tank...

I currently have a 20L (30inches long x 15 inches wide or so) that is in the process of cycling w/ fishies... I would have done it fishless had I known... but it is what it is and I didn't know until after the fish were in...

I have read numerous articles on cycling the tank and I am testing my water daily and doing water changes frequently - daily even if needed to keep the toxic lvls down and I know that I have both types of bacteria in there producing.. so I feel the tank should be done cycling fairly soon. I have not lost any fish, nor do any seem unhappy or suffering.

What it is currently stocked with are 6 zebra danios and 2 rosy barbs... what I am wondering is what kind of fish I can consider adding in once I'm good to go...

I was hoping that I would be able to add in a dwarf gourami and a three-spot gourami, a bala shark, and possibly one other? I know the rosy barbs like to school and so I was hoping I could add possibly 2 more of those?

That would equal a total of 13 fish... and I am already aware that the bala shark will get big eventually... and the three-spot I think I read can get up to 6 inches... but my plan would be to just upgrade them at that time to a 75 gallon or so....

would this plan work? do suggest alternative fish? where is the line as far as overstocking?

Also.. I have fallen for the shiny silver looks of fish like tinfoil barbs and silver dollars are awesome too... what size tank and what tank mates would you suggest? I haven't even got my tank completely cycled yet and already I'm making a plan for yet another one hehehe... I <3 MTS.


Thank you!

[pharasalia]

Ooh, I forgot to mention... with the gouramis... I heard/read that you should only keep one in a tnak unless they were separate sexes... is this true? So one dwarf and one three-spot would do okay together if one was male, the other female?

[jm1212]

check this out
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97203

nope. three spots are very aggressive and will kill anything in the tank that is smaller than they are.

balas get far to large for your tank. they get to 14 inches long and like the company of their own species. for a group of 5, a 180 gallon tank is a minimum IMO

[Sammie7]

I'd stay away from tinfoil barbs and silver dollars. Silver dollars like to be in groups and can grow up to 6 inches. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_dollar.php
Oh, but it gets better. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_tinfoil.php Yup, 16 inches or more of wonderful fish.
Then the bala shark: http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bala.php
Then the rosy barbs: http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_rosy.php Yes, they can get to be 6 inches as well and prefer to be in groups.
As for the gourami I'd say just go with the dwarf.

[GirlieGirl8521]

nope. three spots are very aggressive and will kill anything in the tank that is smaller than they are.
Have you had this happen on more than one occasion or something? I have a 3-spot gourami and know other people that do, and they are all living peacefully with smaller fish. I wouldn't make a statement like that unless you've had many 3-spot gouramis and seen aggression in many of them (not just one) toward smaller fish.


What it is currently stocked with are 6 zebra danios and 2 rosy barbs... what I am wondering is what kind of fish I can consider adding in once I'm good to go...

I was hoping that I would be able to add in a dwarf gourami and a three-spot gourami, a bala shark, and possibly one other? I know the rosy barbs like to school and so I was hoping I could add possibly 2 more of those?
I'd return the Rosy barbs to the store. They get large, too large IMO for a 20g. 3-spot gouramis and other opalines (gold, blue) get too big for a 20g as well. Mine is right at 5 inches and I couldn't imagine him in a 20g tank. I upgraded him from a 29g to my 55g because I felt he needed the room. Balas get far to large for your tank and too large for a 75g. They can get over a foot long, so a 6 foot tank that is atleast 2 foot wide would be more appropriate for them IMO. I'd skip that idea.

I'd definitely just add a Dwarf gourami and maybe some bottom feeders like smaller cories. If you are keeping the danios, you could get a couple more to increase the school. If you don't like the cory idea, you could get another school of small fish, like Neons or Glowlights. I'd go with atleast 6 of them.

[pharasalia]

Thank you for the good advice.. it just amazes me what people will sell to us unsuspecting noobs. I was at the lfs a number of times recently and discussed these different types of fish with them.. they sell those bala sharks all day long without telling the person buying that it will get a foot long one day, granted, that may take awhile... but you know how it is. My rosy barbs were discussed with me in the same breath as the tiger barbs which only get 2 inches - clearly they just wanted to close a sale. =/

Sooo. Question.. I really like some fish, like these barbs, that can get to six inches max length. What size tank would you need to keep a school of say 6 of these barbs? I'm not thinking of anything current, I guess my 2 beautiful boys will have to go back to the store, but if I went that route, for a tank just of barbs, live plants, and an algae eater... what would be a good tank size? Its something I may consider working towards in the next two years or so cause, well, I'm totally addicted now.

Another question. Three spot gouramis are just nifty. What would be the recommendation of tank size/stock for a tank where that fish was the show fish... you know, with only like a couple of algae eaters or something thrown in... girliegirl, you say yours is in a 55g? Do you think you will have to upgrade again or is he set and what other fish do you have with him if any?

Sooo. Back to my current 20L w/ the danios and the barbs... assuming the store will take them back, I'm definitely going to get a dwarf gourami. I assume cardinals are interchangeable with neons? If I were to go with another schooling fish I mean? Are there any other tetras or small peaceful schooling fish any of you would recommend in that capacity? If I were to increase the danio school, by how many would you recommend?

The stock list would look something like this:
6 zebra danios (plus the increase #, whatever that may be)
1 dwarf gourami
6 of some other small peaceful schooling fish

I'd also like a snail or a few ghost shrimp or perhaps both for algae.. how would that be for a working stock list? Could I get away with adding anything else or is that pretty much the max?

Thank you for the links.. and the help. I appreciate this. You know, I had less to learn with my tarantulas lol.

[yourchoice]

You probably have a 20 or 25 gallon tank not litres if it is 30 inches.I would recommend.
6-9 danois. very hardy.
pair of Bolivian Rams > very hardy{specifically Bolivian )They will stay near the bottom and spend lots of time right at the front of the tank looking out.Two males will divide up the front of the tank and then fight when the other comes into their half but won`t hurt each other .A couple will spend time swimming around with each other.They cost a little more.
Dwarf Gourami can be on the delicate side but given space will lesurely cruise around the whole tank stress free.Females are silver and look stunning also.
Snail .I don`t know anything about ghost shirmp.

[jm1212]

Have you had this happen on more than one occasion or something? I have a 3-spot gourami and know other people that do, and they are all living peacefully with smaller fish. I wouldn't make a statement like that unless you've had many 3-spot gouramis and seen aggression in many of them (not just one) toward smaller fish.

yes, i have. i was sold when i was starting out, because they told me it was a peacful community fish. yeah right. everything was fine and dandy until it went on a rampage and killed my platies and tried to kill all of my black skirts and corydoras. this is also a reason that i do not talk to the people at the LFS.

the thing is, im not the only one that has had experiences like this. a couple of days ago, there was a person that said their opaline was killing their angel and other fish.

[jm1212]

Thank you for the good advice.. it just amazes me what people will sell to us unsuspecting noobs. I was at the lfs a number of times recently and discussed these different types of fish with them.. they sell those bala sharks all day long without telling the person buying that it will get a foot long one day, granted, that may take awhile... but you know how it is. My rosy barbs were discussed with me in the same breath as the tiger barbs which only get 2 inches - clearly they just wanted to close a sale. =/

Sooo. Question.. I really like some fish, like these barbs, that can get to six inches max length. What size tank would you need to keep a school of say 6 of these barbs? I'm not thinking of anything current, I guess my 2 beautiful boys will have to go back to the store, but if I went that route, for a tank just of barbs, live plants, and an algae eater... what would be a good tank size? Its something I may consider working towards in the next two years or so cause, well, I'm totally addicted now.

Another question. Three spot gouramis are just nifty. What would be the recommendation of tank size/stock for a tank where that fish was the show fish... you know, with only like a couple of algae eaters or something thrown in... girliegirl, you say yours is in a 55g? Do you think you will have to upgrade again or is he set and what other fish do you have with him if any?

Sooo. Back to my current 20L w/ the danios and the barbs... assuming the store will take them back, I'm definitely going to get a dwarf gourami. I assume cardinals are interchangeable with neons? If I were to go with another schooling fish I mean? Are there any other tetras or small peaceful schooling fish any of you would recommend in that capacity? If I were to increase the danio school, by how many would you recommend?

The stock list would look something like this:
6 zebra danios (plus the increase #, whatever that may be)
1 dwarf gourami
6 of some other small peaceful schooling fish

I'd also like a snail or a few ghost shrimp or perhaps both for algae.. how would that be for a working stock list? Could I get away with adding anything else or is that pretty much the max?

Thank you for the links.. and the help. I appreciate this. You know, I had less to learn with my tarantulas lol.

your future stocking plan looks good. for your peacful schooler, get 6 neons

read my above posts to why i dont like three spots.

[GirlieGirl8521]

Sooo. Question.. I really like some fish, like these barbs, that can get to six inches max length. What size tank would you need to keep a school of say 6 of these barbs? I'm not thinking of anything current, I guess my 2 beautiful boys will have to go back to the store, but if I went that route, for a tank just of barbs, live plants, and an algae eater... what would be a good tank size? Its something I may consider working towards in the next two years or so cause, well, I'm totally addicted now.
For a school of 6+ Rosy Barbs, I'd say a 4ft tank would be minimum, since they do grow to 5 or 6 inches. That would be atleast a 55g. Tiger barbs stay smaller, so you could have a school of them plus some bottom feeders in a 30g long minimum IMO.


Another question. Three spot gouramis are just nifty. What would be the recommendation of tank size/stock for a tank where that fish was the show fish... you know, with only like a couple of algae eaters or something thrown in... girliegirl, you say yours is in a 55g? Do you think you will have to upgrade again or is he set and what other fish do you have with him if any?
A 3-spot gourami or any of the opalines (gold, blue) would be fine in a 40g IMO with a school of fish and some bottom feeders. I won't have to upgrade my guy anymore. He's about 5 inches, which is full grown for them.
I have alot of fish with my 3-spot. He's totally peaceful. I keep Head and Tailight tetras, Flame tetras, Rummynose tetras, Bolivian ram, Cories (sodalis, false julii, and schwartzi), an Angelfish, Yoyo loaches, Otocinclus, and a Bristlenose pleco. All in my 55g tank. :) Its a little overstocked, but heavily planted. Everything but the BN and Angelfish is smaller than him and he doesn't pay any of them attention. The Ram sometimes chases him out of "his" territory and the Yoyos bother him sometimes, but he isn't aggressive to any of them.


Sooo. Back to my current 20L w/ the danios and the barbs... assuming the store will take them back, I'm definitely going to get a dwarf gourami. I assume cardinals are interchangeable with neons? If I were to go with another schooling fish I mean? Are there any other tetras or small peaceful schooling fish any of you would recommend in that capacity? If I were to increase the danio school, by how many would you recommend?

The stock list would look something like this:
6 zebra danios (plus the increase #, whatever that may be)
1 dwarf gourami
6 of some other small peaceful schooling fish

I'd also like a snail or a few ghost shrimp or perhaps both for algae.. how would that be for a working stock list? Could I get away with adding anything else or is that pretty much the max?

Cardinal tetras are interchangeable with Neons. Also you can consider Black neons, which get a tad larger than Neons and Cardinals, but are still nice fish. With the danios though, you probably want to add some color. ;) Harlequin rasboras are another option. I have 6 and will eventually move them to a new tank and add to the school. They are beautiful little fish and very peaceful. If you want to increase the danios, I'd just increase the school by 2 more. 2 schools of 8 plus the gourami and shrimp would stock the tank IMO.
If you can find them, Honey Gouramis are beautful fish and supposed to be more peaceful than Dwarves. You could add some shrimp, but anything small enough to fit in the gouramis mouth will most likely be eaten. If you have alot of cover for them, they might be ok though, since DGs are small.


yes, i have. i was sold when i was starting out, because they told me it was a peacful community fish. yeah right. everything was fine and dandy until it went on a rampage and killed my platies and tried to kill all of my black skirts and corydoras. this is also a reason that i do not talk to the people at the LFS.
the thing is, im not the only one that has had experiences like this. a couple of days ago, there was a person that said their opaline was killing their angel and other fish.

You had one fish....not 100 that were aggressive. You can't make a general statement about a type of fish based on your 1 experience....or even on 2 people's experiences.

The person you are referring to was keeping an opaline with an angelfish, which is always hit or miss. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. That doesn't mean you can make a statement that they will always kill other fish...because thats just not true.