I want ANGELS

[tygr]

Hi, I'm new here and just started up a new 55 gallon tank. I eventually want angels, but I've never been able to keep them alive in the past, even in a very well established and cycled tank. I have been reading the posts and see that many of you are doing well with angels, so I must try--but I will need expert help.
1. Apparently they need specific water conditions?
2. Was I buying from the wrong place?
3. Is 8 weeks cycling too soon to dream of adding them?
4. Is variety a HUGE factor of the species?
5. Will someone "gently" critique my tank set up for angels in general and give me any "constructive" advice they can before I do this again. I hate losing fish, hurts my feelings badly and I feel responsible.

[jm1212]

most common angels you will find in an everyday LFS will readily adapt to your water condidtions. i keep angels in a pH of 8.0.

where did you buy them from?

if your tank is fully cycled and stable, you can add soem angels to it.

the angels themselves are not really effected by other color varieties in the tank, but it can make a nice display for you.

go ahead and tell me your setup :)

[tygr]

Hi JM,

I bought angels from the local pet shop years ago, she started in her basement and became so good she opened her own tropical store and later a full fledged pet shop. Those were the ones that kept dying.

My tank is not fully cycled yet, but should be in another 2 to 4 weeks. Some folks tell me 28 days, some say 8 weeks...I have no idea what's true, but my tank has been up for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks now and I plan on letting it go for another 2 or 4 before I try and put angels in, or upon "expert" advice.

I was working with limited funds and the local tropical fish store had a great bargain on a 55 gal. tank set up. Over the wall, dual chamber filtration--charcoal and the like...better than 10 years ago, but it's not top of the line, I know. I have a submersible heater that is made for over 50 gal, but I added a second one to the other end and closer to the water return just to get more stable temperature. I am right at 78 degrees-a little warm i guess, but it gets cold in that room at night since it's an enclosed porch. my ph is up and down still from 6.8 to 8.0, I'm pretty sure I don't ever remember that much fluctuation after my last tank was established.

I don't have live plants, I'm doing silk plants which seem to be new on the market. I have a basic 1" gravel substrate, a little thicker in spots here and there where I have slate and river rock caves built and where it's helping to keep plants in place. Lighting is standard, 4-bulb flourescents, two under each hood. I have plenty of airation I think, a small stone at each end and a flexible curtain type tube in the center which emits different concentrations of bubbles to ensure some water surface tension is broken.

The tank I wanted would have cost upwards to two thousand dollars and I just couldn't afford it right now. I probably will invest in a much better system later on, and if I have to wait on angels for that tank than I will, but I know I've seen them in tanks with over the wall systems like mine. Years ago, that's all they had. I know you are young, understand I'm not being condescending, just explaining why I would buy another over the wall system when there are better options now days.

I have danios and some mild mannered tetras in my tank right now, along with my betta--all seem to be tolerating the flexing ph ok for now. After it stablizes tho, once the biology is well at work in the tank, what more do I need to concern myself with angels?

[snickle]

I am goign to be starting a tank with angels soon. SO I am interested in the responses.

One thing I would be worried about is a Betta with the Angels. Seems like a fight waiting to happen.

[jm1212]

first- are you adding pH chemicals to you tank?

ok- danios are pretty hyperactive and may stress out the angels... what type of tetras do you have?

[Star_Rider]

angel + danios=food

I raise angels..I have domestic scalare and wild peruvian scalare.
angels are not difficult to keep. the wilds take a bit more care..but they are fine in most pH..mine happens to be 7 (in heavy rains the pH has dropped to 6.8)

I keep the temp a bit on the warm side I like to keep my angel tanks at 82..my experience at lower temps proved to me that lower temps seemed to have stressed my angels more leading to more possible problems related to stress. i found my angels became more active at 82.

water quality is key to keeping fish..since I also keep discus I do my water change twice weekly at 30-40% each change.

my tanks I purchase off craigslist..my most expensive is a 75 full operational with sump filter..I keep my angels in various tanks from a 55 display to several 29's with breeding pairs.

you should be able to get a set up for around $200-$300 ..shop around.

I run reverse flow ugf in my display with two HOB filters.

when you get your angels..quarantine them for several weeks..I prefer to treat my angels and discus with parasite meds before I introduce them to my tanks.

[Dakotagirl]

What kind of parasite meds do you use?

[Atomix-MFK]

What's your exact method of filtration? in a 55 I'd run either an Emporer 400 or an Aquaclear 110 HOB filter which should provide more than enough surface agitation.

AND

I nice steady dependable cannister filter with a lower GPH like the smallest of the Eheim Classic series and I'd make sure to upgrade the biological filtration to "Substrat" From bottom to top - ceramic rings, coarse filter pad, substrat, fine filter pad.


If you already have an undergravel filter, pick up a pair of Penguin 660R reverse flow power heads and hook them up to your pipes, one on either side and skip the cannister. If you don't, or if you just want more stable results, go with the cannister.


Otherwise I recommend a nice big hunk of Malaysian driftwood in the tank with some java moss tied to it... Boil it for an hour, change the water in the pot, add some salt and repeat, change the water and let soak overnight and put it in the tank. The tannic acid released from the driftwood will be reduced after the boiling but should help stabilize your PH.. it will darken your tank a little bit but your angels will appreciate it. Growing java moss on your driftwood, other than looking great, will also help keep your nitrates in check. And a little clump of java doesn't require any special "planted" upkeep. Just remember to turn the lights on every day and it will thrive.


When it comes to angels you have to change your water in large amounts rather often. 30% once a week is the minimum.

[zazz]

Hi JM,



My tank is not fully cycled yet, but should be in another 2 to 4 weeks. Some folks tell me 28 days, some say 8 weeks...I have no idea what's true, but my tank has been up for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks now and I plan on letting it go for another 2 or 4 before I try and put angels in, or upon "expert" advice."

Maybe you already know this, but you can tell how thw cycling is coming along by measuring the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. 0 ammonia, O nitrite, some amount of nitrate means the tank is cycled.

" ...I was working with limited funds and the local tropical fish store had a great bargain on a 55 gal. tank set up. Over the wall, dual chamber filtration--charcoal and the like...better than 10 years ago, but it's not top of the line, I know. I have a submersible heater that is made for over 50 gal, but I added a second one to the other end and closer to the water return just to get more stable temperature. I am right at 78 degrees-a little warm i guess, but it gets cold in that room at night since it's an enclosed porch. my ph is up and down still from 6.8 to 8.0, I'm pretty sure I don't ever remember that much fluctuation after my last tank was established.
I have plenty of airation I think, a small stone at each end and a flexible curtain type tube in the center which emits different concentrations of bubbles to ensure some water surface tension is broken..."

~I think that the over the wall type filter is what people lately are calling a HOB (Hang On Back)filter (?) If so, It should provide plenty of airation if the water return agitates the surface some, making the bubbles optional. Do you know the manufacturers name or the size of the filter? also, out of curiousity, what do you have in it other than charcoal.

~Why do you suppose your ph is fluctuating so? Does it change that much out of the tap? Or only in your tank?


~Wow, now That sounds like some set up!:cool2: curious, what was it?

[I]..."I have danios and some mild mannered tetras in my tank right now, along with my betta--all seem to be tolerating the flexing ph ok for now. After it stablizes tho, once the biology is well at work in the tank, what more do I need to concern myself with angels?"
Not little neon tetras by any chance... or cardinals? I hear angles find them quite tastey.
I have never yet kept angels, though I have wanted to and am therefore watching this thread with interest. I have a 55gal sitting empty...

[Star_Rider]

What kind of parasite meds do you use?

you can find general parasite cure with praziquantel, metronidazole I also keep on hand LevamisoleHCL..other meds that are effective fenbenzadole(panacure), flubenzadole these may be avialable as wormers for your pets(dogs etc)

if your pH is 6.6 or lower you may want to use flubenzadole or fenbenzadole as Levamisole looses part of it's effectiveness at 6.6 or less pH.

[angelfishlover]

When you bought your fish is there any dead or dying fish in the dealers tank???If have then that is the one may cause the trouble of dying fish.The wild scalare is difficult to take care.I took care some juveniles and it is very prone to fin rot.All my other fishes do not have except for the wild type.I now still quarantining them.The one marbled angel only got white spots so i treated the whole tank because there is a huge outbreak with general aid med that is used to kill common parasites and diseases.And my marbled angel now doing fine see my avatar.(It's actually begging for food there)
<<<

[aardvark1]

Maybe I'm lucky, but have had no problems with my Angels. Mollys, platys and guppies that I buy all die off, but the angels and Tetras just keep on swimming, eating and pooping!

Got 4 marbles at PetSmart, first had them in a 20 high with 3 Black Skirt Tetra's. Now in my 55 with a bunch of other fishies (see sig). No agression on either side except when the Angels spawn, then Mom & Dad will chase the other fishies away from the eggs.

Tank is fully planted, water change every week. Filtration is 2X Penguin 350's, with a UV filter on midnight to 8 Am. Temp at 80. No idea what the PH is (haven't done any tests for awhile).

Fish are spawning so I'm assuming they are happy!

[Clankeye]

I have two wonderful black marble Angels in my 55. They seem very hardy, and they are active and responsive. My Ph is 6.8 and I keep my tank at 80 degrees.

One thing that has surprised and bothered me--I have a small "gang" of Rummy Nose Tetras and lately they have started harassing the Angels. Following them around, nipping at fins, etc. I can tell this is kind of stressful to the Angels. I didn't expect this from the Rummies. They may have won themselves a ticket to a new tank.

[plantling]

I was able to breed a couple of Angels in the past but gave them and babies away when I moved. Now I have 4 baby Angels that I am hoping to get a pair out of. Angels are quite exciting to have, especially if they breed and you get to watch how the parents take care of the eggs and then the babies.

Ditto on what has been said about frequent water changes and temp being about 80. Young and breeding Angels should be fed often, at least twice a day. Have some plants or driftwood for them to hide in. Good Luck.

[Swayde]

Are there any small types of Angels that could live with Danios and not eat them? I'd love to have Angels as well, but I have grown fond of my little Danios and would hate to see them end up as dinner.

[Star_Rider]

with angels it's hit or miss when you place them with smaller 'target' fish.

sometimes they are fine with larger tetras/danios etc.
generally many consider danios to active for angels..but then again...it really depends.

if you get an aggressive male angel..all bets are off keeping them with any smaller fish.

fyi. most of the angels you find in stores are Scalare. most of these are domestic.

I have seen leopoldii's/dumerelli's..these are the smallest species of angels you may find.
the other angels is the Altum..very strict water parameters for these..they can be extremely sensitive ..they are the largest angel . most are wild caught.

[olichka87]

i have a betta boy with angels in my 125 gallon and they are fine, never had any problems with them not geting along.

[jm1212]

i have a betta boy with angels in my 125 gallon and they are fine, never had any problems with them not geting along.
thats because your tank is pretty big. in a 30 gallon, it probably would not work.

[angelfishlover]

You keep juvenile angels with the danios and it will sure don't eat it when it grew up.

[Star_Rider]

You keep juvenile angels with the danios and it will sure don't eat it when it grew up.

simply not true...the idea is to raise the angels with smaller fish( including danios). the idea is to 'impress' on the baby angels that these are 'tank mates' and not food

but this is not 100% sure fired that they won't eat the tank mates.

it does work in some cases..so you can try it..but cichlds will be cichlids.