Sick fish, please help

[mrmightymouse2u]

I received a betta as a gift. Now, one week into a fishless cycle on a 5g planted aquarium I've set up for him, something is wrong with him. I've spent at least 8 hours reading descriptions of fish diseases, parasites, fungus and looking at pictures of sick fish (when available) and I still have little idea of what the problem(s) could be.

He started to look like he was loosing a bit of coloring under his mouth. As I know relatively nothing about betta, I immediately searched for photos of other red betta to see if this was normal. I found a couple pictures of betta who shared this characteristic. The next day, however, the color loss had spread. In addition, he was lethargic, no longer interested in food, spent a lot of time near the bottom of his current tank (.75g), and looked as if he did not have the strength to swim to the top of the tank to breathe from the surface. I diagnosed his condition as velvet because, as the patch under his mouth spread back towards his gills, it had a shiny, gold appearance. But, I have little confidence in this diagnosis because: 1) He doesn't really match the symptoms of any fish diseases I've come across during my internet research; 2) I have never seen a sick fish before or treated one.

I lowered the water level to .5g so he could more easily reach the surface and began treating with Aquarium Pharmaceuticals' anti-parasitic General Cure and salt with 100% water changes every two days. Tomorrow will conclude the course of treatment as indicated by the General Cure instructions.

He did eat a little this morning, which is a good sign. However, I am worried because I do not see any movement in his gills and think he may be breathing only surface air with his labyrinth organ. In addition, he spends a good portion of time frozen in the water, not moving. He responds to me by swimming over and seems to enjoy my presence, but then he quickly freezes again. Once or twice he has opened his mouth towards me, but I don't know what, if anything, this means. More significantly, there is still discoloration around his face and gills.

I am unsure of what to do next. Have you seen anything like what he appears to have?

Currently his water conditions are approximately: pH 7.6+, .25 Ammonia, 0 Nitrate, 0 Nitrite, 150 hardness, 200 alkalinity, 0 chlorine, with General Cure, salt, and Bio-Coat.

I'm sorry if I've given too much detail, but I'm thinking that because I do not know much about fish, then any detail might be meaningful to those more knowledgeable and experienced than me. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[swany]

OK, well, from the pictures, it looks like you have a healthy, bored, betta.
No offense. In the store, they are usually housed in view of other male bettas which is exciting for them. They stay colored up. But when you get them home and they have nothing to do and nothing to excite them, you get a lethargic acting fish. They don't need to eat much as they are not exerting any energy.

I could be wrong, he could be sick. But, try letting him look at himself in a mirror and see if he perks up. He should flare his gillplates and spread his fins real wide since he thinks he is seeing another male.

In my tank, my betta has 15 females to keep him busy. He is happy, healthy and splits his time chasing the girls, hanging out in the plants and searching stealthily among the plants for food. Bettas seem to love the slow and methodical search for food.

Good luck.

[maronov]

In my tank, my betta has 15 females to keep him busy.
Is this even a good idea?

And people keep bettas by themselves all the time, I doubt it's just an issue of boredom.

[princessbobsie]

i had a betta just like that...he went a greenish colour under his mouth and had an enlarged belly..he still ate but died after i had him 2weeks. this is a pic of how gorgeous he was



http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3355/picture150vs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[mrmightymouse2u]

This morning I placed a mirror in front of him, after he swam over to me. At first, he was not the least bit interested in his reflection. On my third try with the mirror, he swam straight over. Yet he didn't shake or flare. Then he just froze like he fell asleep. He stayed this way for a minute and then "woke up" and began moving again.

I'm at the end of the course of treatment as per instructions for the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals anti-parasitic General Cure medication I'm using, however, I can see gold dust at the base of his tail more prominently than before I began treating him. I've called Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (and they are supposed to return my call) to ask if continuing to dose is safe after the initial course of treatment.

I feel that if I could get him in the 5g with the heater and better pH, he'd probably do better. Unfortunately, there's still too much ammonia (3.0) in it.

Has anyone dealt with Velvet before? What treatment did you use, how long did it take to clear up? Should I be concerned about secondary infections (and thus add Maracyn or Maracyn-II to the treatment retinue as well)?

[Shocker6966]

With the absence of any velvety material on his scales, I doubt its velvet.

I've seen fish discolour like you described as a result of nitrite burns. Is it possible you had a spike at some point? Has he at any point rubbed on the substrate or decorations as if scratching an itch? Other than what you've already done, I don't know what to do. Keep the water pristine, eliminate the .25 ammonia and see what happens.

Is there any possibility that he's come in contact with any irritants such as cleaning chemicals? These can also produce symptoms similar to what you've described.

[yourchoice]

.Only needs to eat about 2 flakes a
day.

[mrmightymouse2u]

He has not tried to scratch or rub on anything. When I first noticed the discoloration, I could only see gold specks on him with a camera flash. However, this morning, in natural light, I saw gold specks at the base of his tail and a few on the side of his body. It seems unlikely that he’d develop more velvet during treatment, but that's how it seems.

I don't know if there could have been a nitrite spike. I noticed the discoloration when I changed his water and I didn't think to test the old water. If this was the case, is there anything I can do now to help him or to facilitate recovery?

[Cathy G]

Change his water daily there should be 0 ammonia. See if you can float his temporary bowl in the fishless cycling tank so that he is warmed up. If you have already planted the 5g you are cycling, you might need to cover his bowl with some fin foil to keep some of the bright light off of him. But, what he needs most is clean water.
Cathy

[rhardy]

Ammonia level is a worry. This lowers the oxygen concentration level in the water. If you are changing the water every two days and the ammonia level is still .25 you must be feeding too much or something else is causing the ammonia level to be elevated.

[mrmightymouse2u]

He has been picking up a bit lately and now that I've now got his "hospital tank" floating in the fishless cycling tank, his water temp is on the way up. I hope this spells additional relief for him.

There is still velvet at the base of his tail, but I'm hoping it's only a matter of time before the medication eliminates it. I've attached a couple additional pictures just to make sure what I'm seeing is indeed velvet.

I'll change his water daily to see what’s going on with the ammonia. I feed only 3 or 4 pellets morning and evening, but the tank he's currently in is small. However, I was recycling rocks, after rinsing them vigorously. Perhaps the ammonia level in his tank is from material that hasn't rinsed off the rocks.

[ozy]

ammonia has got to be nil,stop treating and change the water. get rid of the gravel cos food will get trapped in it & make more ammonia they like warm water as well 28 is about right.

[mrmightymouse2u]

Thank you, everyone, for your help. My betta is up, around and happy once again.