Need Guidance for a Quick Fishy Cycle

[BlueTetraGirl]

I'm trying to cycle a 1.5 gallon tank quickly, since I was given a betta in a bowl, and got a small tank to upgrade him to. My tank currently has LED lights, a tetra whisper internal air-powered filter, a small heater, gravel, fake plants, and a small resin cave/hideout. The residents are 1 male crowntail betta and 2 small cories.

My tap water is hard, so I'm mixing it half and half with distilled or RO water. I have been using Novaqua plus, Amquel plus, and Cycle in the water, and I put some Bio-max pellets in the filter. I need the tank to cycle very quickly without harming the fish. The water is cloudy. Is this because of the Cycle? I have seen some posts saying that Cycle is not very good. Should I get Bio-spira instead? How can I get my tank to cycle faster?

Any and all advice on my tank will be greatly appreciated!

[Star_Rider]

how long was the betta in a bowl? was there gravel or ornaments in the bowl?

depending on this info..you may have bacteria on the media that was in the bowl..you could use that to 'jump' start the new tank.

[Marinemom]

You can use some media from an established aquarium or you can get some bio-spira which should cycle your tank quick enough all the while keeping your fish safe from toxins in the water while this happens.

Marinemom

[BlueTetraGirl]

The betta was in the bowl for two weeks without a water change. :( (I was sick in bed, that's why.) The bowl is a half gallon glass bowl, and it had some one inch plastic rocks in the bottom and a fake plant. Unfortunately, I rinsed these with tap water before I put him in his new tank. The tank has been up for just over a week. I am going to test the water now. I don't have access to an established aqurium to get any media.

[jm1212]

how "high" is your pH? bettas are tough fish and should be able to adapt to your pH, so you shouldnt have to add RO water.

as for the cycle, just do water changes when the ammoina and.or nitrite are over 0.25

[BlueTetraGirl]

Ok, here are my tank numbers.
pH 7.2
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
GH 0ppm
KH 40-80ppm
temp. 83* It was 80* last night. Should I worry about this? It has been 78* to 80* for the past week.
Used API test tube kits for all but GH and KH. Used API strips for those.
I haven't tested my tap water since last fall. I'll go test it now and post the numbers.
When I change the water, how much should I change at once? How much ammonia is ok to leave in the tank?

[Marinemom]

With just a 1.5 gallon you will not have to change out much. Maqybe a half of a gallon with a tiny or really small gravel vac. Use the smallest one you can find. Ideally you want the ammonia and the nitrite sitting ay 0 and nitrates under 20 to be fully cycled. During the cycle you want to keep the ammonia at <.25. Do water changes to accomplish this. Don't worry about the betta too much. They are pretty tough little fish.

Marinemom

[BlueTetraGirl]

I have two small cories in there, too. The water is cloudy. Should I be worried?
My tap water numbers are:
pH 7.2
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm
GH 180ppm (Highest possible reading on strip)
KH 240ppm (Highest possible reading on strip)

Since my tank just tested 1.0ppm for ammonia, how much water should I change?
How do you use a gravel vac? I thought that you wanted the bacteria to get established in the gravel?
Should I add more Cycle, Novaqua plus, and Amquel plus? Should I try to buy some Bio-spira?
How do I get the water to clear up?
Is the temp ok for Cories? It's 83* the highest yet.

Thanks for all your help. I know I am asking a lot of questions.

[Marinemom]

O.K during the cycle you can skip the gravel vac until you are cycled. I would change out about a half a gallon even if you have to do it twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. It is easy to use a gravel vac. Basically it is an instrument that operates as a syphon to take water out of the tank. It is used like a vaccuum to get all the gunk in the substrate such as leftover food and fish poop so it does not sit at the bottom of the tank and rot which will mess with the water quality. It is like vaccumming the gravel if you will. The cloudiness that you see is from the ammonia in the water and once you get the levels down then it will clear on its own. The use of bio-spira will help but for that size tank I think it is an expensive product for such a small tank. The temps. in the 80's does sound high to me and you probably do not want to keep it that high long term. If you can get it down to 78 degrees that would be better for your fish. Oh and ask all the questions you want. Right now I have to go to work but if you have more questions I will try to check back in after I get home from work or I am sure someone else will be along to help too.

Marinemom

[Mgamer20o0]

this is what i would do.

put the betta in the 1.5 gal. if the betta is in a bowl now and you cleaned the rocks that were in there its prob not even cycled. better just to get it into the bigger tank now.

when the ammonia or nitrites are over .25 i would do a 50% water change. since its at 1.0 i would do a 75% water change right away and check again after a few hours. you might have to do 2-3 water changes a day.

as for what to add to the tank. i would only add Amquel plus when doing the water change.

keep testing your water and water changing and everything should be fine.

[BlueTetraGirl]

Is it ok to keep using Cycle? Will it help the tank to cycle faster?
I just put all the fish in the bowl temporarily to do the water change.
The water is really, really, really cloudy, with lots of suspended particles in it, and I was just going to change the entire tank. Is that ok, or would it put me back at square one as far as the cycle goes?
BTW, the temp came down to 80* (I had my dorm room too warm and it affected the temp, I think)
PLEASE respond ASAP, as I want to change the water now.

[BlueTetraGirl]

The plastic plants had something fuzzy and whitish floating from them that just appeared today. Is this good, bad, indifferent, etc.? Should I rinse them with tap water?

[Reddog80p]

sounds like a bacterial bloom and is perfectly normal. Should go away in a day or two, once the bacteria starts adhering to the surfaces.

[Mgamer20o0]

Is it ok to keep using Cycle? Will it help the tank to cycle faster?
I just put all the fish in the bowl temporarily to do the water change.
The water is really, really, really cloudy, with lots of suspended particles in it, and I was just going to change the entire tank. Is that ok, or would it put me back at square one as far as the cycle goes?
BTW, the temp came down to 80* (I had my dorm room too warm and it affected the temp, I think)
PLEASE respond ASAP, as I want to change the water now.

i wouldnt use cycle. the only product i ever heard helping a tank cycle was bio spira.

[BlueTetraGirl]

Is it ok to do a complete water change, or only partial?

[Mgamer20o0]

its fine. i try to stay under 80% but sometimes you need more. i do weekly water changes of 50%

[BlueTetraGirl]

Thanks so much. I just changed about 85-90% of the water, and I'm going to test the ammonia levels again now. BUT, the water is still extremely cloudy! Should I be worried? Will such a big water change affect the good bacteria growth needed in cycling?

[Mgamer20o0]

well yes. its going to slow it down but it will keep the fish safe.

[BlueTetraGirl]

Well, I tested the water again, and here are the numbers:
pH 7.6
Ammonia 0.50 ppm
Nitrate 10 ppm
GH 60 ppm
KH 120 ppm

Since the ammonia is still above 0.25ppm, when should I do another PWC? Should I wait till morning, or do it tonight?

[Mgamer20o0]

i would do it right now. another 50-75% min.

[muddskipper26]

i've heard that it is very difficult or impossible to cycle anything below two gallons because there is so little water and surface area.

[Marinemom]

It can still be cycled. What kind of filter are you using? It may take some time. I would test the water again in the morning and do another water change as is necessary to keep the water paremeters stable.

Marinemom

[BlueTetraGirl]

I am using a Tetra Whisper internal 3i filter. It uses an air pump to run, and is designed for 1-3 gallon tanks. The filter cartridge just sits inside the cylinder that the water is drawn into, and the filtered water spills out of the side of the top. I added some Bio-max pellets into the filter chamber, behind the regular cartridge, to provide the good bacteria a nice place to grow.

I have been testing my water and keeping a log twice a day since I got my test kits on Monday night. I have been using Cycle, Novaqua+ and Amquel+ regularly since Saturday. I first set up the tank on Tuesday last week.

I changed the water again, and got the ammonia down to 0.25ppm and the temp down to 78*

I am trying to watch the tank parameters very carefully. Should I buy Bio-spira, or is Cycle good enough?

BTW, I know it is a really small tank, but as a college student, it was all I could afford/have room for. (My roomate does not understand the love of fish) ;) I plan to set up my bigger tank (10-15 gals, I can't remember which) when I graduate and go back home in three months. Maybe I could even get out my old 50 gallon! :D

Anyway, I want to get this tank safely cycled ASAP. When can I expect to finish the cycle? Do all these water changes make it take longer?

Sorry about the long post, and all my questions. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

[zazz]

1) test water for ammonia. ammonia greater than .25?
2) change some water, say 50 to 75%.
3) Test for ammonia again. If above .25, change more water.
If .25 or below, leave it for now.
4) read the sticky on freshwater cycling
(you asked how much ammonia is it ok to leave in. the answer is .25 at this point)
In such a small tank, I would test 3x/day at first if possible until you see how fast the ammonia builds up.
vaccuuming~ An aquarium vaccuum is just a length of tubing with a rigid tube at the end. the tube is of a greater diameter than the tubing. start a syphon, and stick the tube into the gravel.the syphon will lift the gravel into the tube, the dirt from the gravel bed will be syphoned out with the water, as you raies the tube up to the top of the gravel, the gravel will drop back down. If you can find one small enough, i'd recommend you get one. Yes you can skip vaccumming during the trying to cycle the tank. Even w/o a vqaccuum, a bit of air hose as a syphon will make water changes a lot easier;no need to move the fish,for one thing.
I expect you will be doing a couple of changes a day for a while.
You don't need to worry about getting through it fast, as long as you keep the ammonia, and then the nitrite levels down below .25
I would not expect cycle to do anything.
When fishy cycling, you need to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low. Yes it would probably 'finish cycling somewhat sooner with a large steady supply of ammonia, but that just isnt an option with fish in there, so don't hesitate to do the necessary water changes.
additives~ every time you change the water you need to remove chlorine and chloramine from the replacement water. That is the only water conditioning you need to use at this time. not an ammonia blocking thing, nothing to mess with the PH...just remove chlorine chloramine. Biospira would be fine and probably helpful if you want to spent the money.


Did you say that you have 2 cories and a betta in this 1.5 gal?

[BlueTetraGirl]

Yes, I have 2 cories and 1 betta in this tank. The cories are just juvenilles, so I thought they would be ok in such a small tank for a few months. They get along well with the betta. He tries to intimidate them and bully them a bit, but they either a) hide b) ignore him or c) sass him right back.

BTW, I got a mini gravel vacuum the other day, and it does make water changes a lot easier. I know how to use it as a siphon, I just wasn't quite sure how to use it to vacuum the gravel.

So Bio-spira really works?

Thanks for the help!

[zazz]

sorry, I guess you posted while I was responding.
I think the amquel will distort your test results.
If you were not definitely absolutely positively going to get a larger tank in 3 months, you would definitely have to take out those cories. as it is, keep an eye on them.
I think you might have a very hard time cycling that tank with three fish in it. maybe the bioballs will help. I was just looking at those filters in the store today. I think it should be fine.

[BlueTetraGirl]

Thanks for giving me a good game plan to use for the next few days/weeks. Yeah, I'm keeping a close eye on EVERYTHING at this point! :o

So what water conditioner do you recommend I use? I have some Tetra Aquasafe (a little packet that came with the tank). Should I use that?

[zazz]

I think aquasafe is the one I used to use. right now I am on well water an I use none. I am terrible at remembering product names. read the ovaqua bottle that might be what you are looking for.
look to neutralize chlorine And chloramines. not all water has chloramines but I for get how to test.
gee, I think I used to like having a memory...

[BlueTetraGirl]

That's ok. I'm in an accelerated college, and we fry our brains everyday trying to remember stuff for tests! ;)
Thanks for being so patient with me!

I'll test the water again tomorrow, whoops, I mean later today, and post the new water parameters.

[zazz]

good deal. now go to bed, it's late!;)

[kira]

Interesting thread...

As to not being able to cycle a tank that small because it doesn't have enough surface area, well that is almost too ridiculous to even mention. Ignore that.

As to having too many fish to be able to get a tank to cycle - well that is about as uninformed of an opinion as the previously mentioned statement. Rubbish. Read about fishless cycling - look at the ammonia levels used to cycle the tank. They are way higher than what those little fish can produce and somehow the bacteria colony establishes itself anyway.

Cycle is nothing more than a way to cycle money from your pocket to somebody else's pocket. Worthless.

Don't bother with buying R/O water - your water isn't hard anyway. You said it was GH 60ppm? That's less than 4 dGH. If anybody told you that was hard - they are not a viable source of information. And if that person suggested that you had hard water because you have a pH of 7.6 (?) - and that same person later tells you it's raining, go look out the window before you grab an umbrella.

The most cost-effective product you can get for dechlor is Prime. Some of the others make claims of all kinds of wonderful things they can do for your fish. Ask yourself this - does aloe grow under water? (no) Then why would fish need it? Manufacturers prey on the gullibility of the general public.

If you do not have room for the Corydoras now, you should not have them now. Planning an upgrade? Great, when it is set up, buy the fish for it. Not before. Plans are great, but life has a habit of getting in the way. The fish are the ones who suffer.

Without the Corydoras in the tank, you really don't need to stress too much about the water parameters. Reality check : What do you think the parameters were like in the bowl the Betta lived in before? It is in significantly more water now, which will dilute pollutants. I'm not saying not to do water changes - just don't stress about it. The Betta will do fine. Change 50% daily with dechlorinated water. It will take time to get the cycle going. But it will happen.

[BlueTetraGirl]

The water hardness readings I mentioned are those of half tap, half RO water. Straight tap water is the highest possible readings on my test strips: GH 180 and KH 240. Besides, I don't have to buy RO water. Our dining hall has a big RO unit for drinking water, and I have free access to it anytime I want.

Well, I already have the Cories, so I can't change that, but I am trying really hard to give them the best possible care. Thanks for the comforting words about tank size, fish population, etc., etc.

I'm off to test the water again, then I have to go study.

[BlueTetraGirl]

The tank just tested at :
pH 7.2
Ammonia 0.50 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 10 ppm
Temp 82*

I did a PWC, about 50%, and tested for ammonia. It is now back to 0.25 ppm The temp also went down to 80*

I have been feeding the betta Hikari Betta Bio Gold pellets, and the Cories get one Tetra Min tablet after lights out. I have tried Tetra Betta Min flakes to add some variety, but so far, no one touches them. I can't even tell if the cories are really eating the tablet or not. I just don't find it in the morning.
Are my fish getting the right diet for their needs? Are my cories getting enough to eat? How can I tell if they are eating? Any suggestions?


Thanks, everyone! You guys are great. :D

[kira]

The water hardness readings I mentioned are those of half tap, half RO water. Straight tap water is the highest possible readings on my test strips: GH 180 and KH 240.Part of the issue here could be the use of test strips vs using a liquid test kit. Strips are notoriously inaccurate. If your water is 180ppm or more from the tap, and you cut it with 50% RO, the minimum GH you should then read would be 90ppm. Just an indication of the accuracy of dip-strips.

Well, I already have the Cories, so I can't change thatYou could possibly return them. You can give them away to someone with a suitable sized tank. You could sell them. "It's too late because I already bought them" is no excuse for keeping fish in improper conditions.

[Star_Rider]

the betta can withstand higher temps than 82..the wild bettas live in freakin rice paddies that get much warmer than that.
it is also a labrythn fish(can breath air) which is why they can tolerate conditions most tropical can't..high water temp means less dissolved O2.

stay on top of the water parameters. and keep up on the water changes.

even tho betta's are tough..you should try to provide them with qualtiy conditions.

[BlueTetraGirl]

I'm only using the strips for GH and KH, just to use them up. Then I am getting a liquid kit for that. I have been using a liquid kit for all other readings.

The cories are HAPPY in this tank; they have all the normal corydoras behaviors, and school together. (I had Cories in my tanks for about ten years as I was growing up, and they even spawned, so I recognize happy cories.)
One is Cordoras aneus, the other is Cordoras trilineatus. Since they are so small, they manage quite well in the tank.
Besides, I am absolutely sure that I am setting up my bigger tank within the next three months, when I go home.
Maybe I could set it up over Spring Break in early April, and get my dad to run a fishless cycle on it, so it would be ready in May, when I get home?

[BlueTetraGirl]

Yeah, I want to give all my fish the best conditions possible under the circumstances. ;)
My roomate thinks I am insane with the amount of time and effort I put into caring for these fish. :D
She says that if they were hers, she would flush them down the toilet! :eek: She is a big tease, though. LOL. :p:

Any advice about their food?

[Marinemom]

Cories will eat what the betta eats. They are great little scavengers and will help keep the tank clean in between warer changes. Don't worry too much if you think they are not getting enough to eat because they probably are. Unless no food is going into the tank then there is a food source for them.

Marinemom

[zazz]

Kira, What I meant about having a hard time cycling that tank with that bioload was that it might be difficult to keep the ammonia low enough for the FISH, not for the bacteria. (as in fact she is,IMO, keeps hitting .5)
As far as setting up the tank in april and having it cycled in MAy, I am all for it. the sooner the corries can get into it the better.
I agree that for now the cories can eat whatever the beta eats. I wouldn't bother with the flakes if i were you. I don't know how big those tetramin tablets are, but the last thing you need now is additional ammonia. just see that some betta bits make it to the bottom and the cories will be ok for now.
keep up with those water changes, lucky you to have free RO access, I wouldnt bother with that if i were you . How different is the water at home? that might be something to think about once the tanks cycles.

[BlueTetraGirl]

Update!

I started seeing some nitrite readings on March 1st, and have been keeping close tabs on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. The nitrite were highest on the 2nd, at 0.50ppm. I have been doing pwc's VERY often to keep the levels within a safe range. (I did four pwc's yesterday!)

I got some Bio-spira, and started adding it on Saturday night. (cold, milky appearance). Since then, I've only done one pwc, cause I heard that it would remove the good bacteria.
My ammonia is up to about 0.75 ppm, even after the pwc. My nitrites are about 0.25ppm.
Is this ok? Is the Biospira working? Should I do another pwc, or will this deprive the bacteria of needed food? How do I tell if my fish are getting poisoned by the ammonia?
They all look good to me, but the cories have been very active lately. They school beautifully, and love to lie next to each other very close together (practically on top of each other). ;) Maybe they like the improved diet I got for them. :D

What else can I do to help the cycle along?


Thanks for the help!

[Jadis]

0.75 ppm? oh wow. do a water change now.

i just read through this thread quickly. i hope your not taking your fish out for a water changes. that can be really stressful on them.

[BlueTetraGirl]

No, I'm using a gravel vac to do them. I just unplug the heater and filter while I change the water. Will doing another change now affect how the Biospira Works?

[Jadis]

i am of the school of "less is more" i wouldnt add anything but dechlor.

anyways. with ammonia that high. its less about the bio-spira and more about your fishes health.

im not going to jump on you for having 3 fish in 1.5 gallons. but you are adding a lot of waste to such a small tank and you will always have to do frequent water changes. regardless of having a cycled tank.

[BlueTetraGirl]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm going to change the water now. Hopefully this tank will cycle soon!