can you help me pick :) (long post)

[biancaj]

hey there,
i've figured out a little while back that cichlids are my favourite group and i want to keep a cichlid only tank. for a few months now i've had my 46-gallon bowfront stocked with 3 kribs, 7 barbs, 1 pleco and 2 snails. just recently i moved my barbs back into the 20 gallon. the kribs and barbs had gotten along until i introduced a male to my two females and my pair is now on their third spawn. i only have 1 survivor from batch 1 and about 6 from batch 2 (but they hide so well i can't be sure). i am going to either go ahead and take the little ones to my lfs or raise them a bit bigger in my 10 gallon. i am also goin to remove my poor female krib that has been in hiding since the other two formed a pair. she will probably go in with my barbs - she used to swim with them all the time.

so i will have a breeding pair of kribs (he's around 31/2 - 4 inches, she's a bit smaller), my pleco (about 5 inches) and my snails in the 46 bow.

i am looking at the following fish and was hoping to add 3 or 4 more fish total so i would have 5 or 6 cichlids and my pleco:

firemouth cichlid
rainbow cichlid
convict cichlid
green terror
salvini cichlid
possibly a gold severum or a jack dempsey
maybe duboisi cichlid (but they're herbivore)
calvus cichlid
Gold Head Compressicep Cichlid
Gold Sexfasciatus Cichlid
(electric yellow lab or blue peacock)

sorry my post has gotten so long alreay but here come my questions:
how many do you guys think i should add so there are not too few (heard more is better for less aggression) and not too many so they'll be comfortable and happy. i was thinking 4 added to what i have. i have rock caves, flower pots and i just bought a large holey rock ( i love those!!). i obviously would like to get a little bit bigger fish ( i wish i had a much larger tank! ) around 6 inches.

i got all these fish from the liveaquaria website because this is where i plan on purchasing them. some of the ones i listed suggest 50 gallon, but i wrote them down because they are some of my favourites and i'm only 4 gallons off.

three more questions:
would my new baby fishies be in danger with my adult kribs or would they be able to hold their own? they get shipped at like 1 - 1 1/2 inches.

later on would my kribs be in danger with some of those fish getting a few inches larger than them?

the ones (e.g. peacock) that suggest 3 to 4 females per male - do they have to have females or would they be ok as the only one of their species? i know they suggest multiple ones that way the same one doesn't get harrassed 24/7, but if there are none will that make the single one unhappy?

thanks so much for taking the time and reading this!! i hope you all can give me some good and honest advice. i don't want a bunch of unhappy or dead fish.

PS: a couple of my favourite ones of the ones i selected are:
jack dempsey, firemouth, convict and gold sexfasciatus.


thanks again!

[TigerGuapote]

At a quick glance...if your going to want 3 or 4 additions, my suggestion is to take the Green Terror and the Salvini off your list. Firemouth could work, due to it's less aggresive behavior. Maybe a single convict, but not a breeding pair.

[monkey_toes]

Hoo, boy. OK, about those fish:
firemouth cichlid - Sometimes aggressive, will probably be the tank boss if you get one (ONLY one - no pair).
rainbow cichlid - Fine choice. Should be good with kribs.
convict cichlid - Too aggressive.
green terror - Too aggressive.
salvini cichlid - Way too aggressive.
gold severum - Too big,
jack dempsey - Too aggressive.
duboisi cichlid - Incompatible water requirements.
calvus cichlid - Incompatible water requirements.
Gold Head Compressicep Cichlid - Incompatible water requirements.
Gold Sexfasciatus Cichlid - Incompatible water requirements.
(electric yellow lab or blue peacock) - Incompatible water requirements.


how many do you guys think i should add so there are not too few (heard more is better for less aggression) and not too many so they'll be comfortable and happy. i was thinking 4 added to what i have. i have rock caves, flower pots and i just bought a large holey rock ( i love those!!). i obviously would like to get a little bit bigger fish ( i wish i had a much larger tank! ) around 6 inches.
More fish for less aggression is commonly done with African cichlids - not so much with South & Central Americans. Given the limited space in your tank, I would suggest more peaceful cichlid species (rather than overcrowding) to limit aggression. A few options: Blue rams, keyhole cichlids, any Laetacara species. Severums are nice, but too large for your tank.


i got all these fish from the liveaquaria website because this is where i plan on purchasing them. some of the ones i listed suggest 50 gallon, but i wrote them down because they are some of my favourites and i'm only 4 gallons off.
You have to understand that just because you can keep a fish in a 46-gallon tank, that doesn't mean you can keep 4 other fish the same size in the same tank. You could have a jack dempsey OR a green terror - not both, and certainly not as part of a larger community. You just don't have the space.


three more questions:
would my new baby fishies be in danger with my adult kribs or would they be able to hold their own? they get shipped at like 1 - 1 1/2 inches.
That would probably be OK, unless your kribs are used to eating smaller fish.


later on would my kribs be in danger with some of those fish getting a few inches larger than them?
Larger is not a problem. More aggressive is.


the ones (e.g. peacock) that suggest 3 to 4 females per male - do they have to have females or would they be ok as the only one of their species? i know they suggest multiple ones that way the same one doesn't get harrassed 24/7, but if there are none will that make the single one unhappy?
This is a nonissue now, because the rift lake cichlids that is suggested for require different water chemistry.


thanks so much for taking the time and reading this!! i hope you all can give me some good and honest advice. i don't want a bunch of unhappy or dead fish.
That's good. You also have a great deal of research to do. Searching through all the old cichlid posts here would be a great place to start.

[biancaj]

alright. a bit late, but better than never. i wanted to thank you both for your input and your honesty! i really really wish i had a bigger tank but since i don't i'll just have to deal with the fact that most of these fish will not work for me.
i will defenitly be getting a firemouth tho.

i certainly appreciate your very detailed reply, monkey_toes, and i had another question in regard to your post:
on a lot of my selections you wrote "Incompatible water requirements". it took me a bit but i believe the reason you put that there is because these were african cichlids whereas my kribensis are american. i have heard that you should keep africans in their own tank but i really don't understand why. minus one of the selections ( where i didn't pay attention to the ph ) they require just what i have. lots of rock, some driftwood ( i forgot to add that in my original post), sand, caves, high ph. all these things are in my tank, that's what my kribs like and i paid attention (exept with the severum or the duboisi - one or the other) to these things when i chose the fishies.

so i've given up on most of these fishes, but i'm still rather attached to the
-calvus (according to website: 30g minimum, ph 7.8 - 9.0, 5", aggressive (but can be housed with other smaller tanganyikan)),
-electric yellow ( or blue peacock) - says it wants a 50g, 7.8 - 8.5ph, semi-aggressive (but states it's kind of shy and peaceful compared to other africans) and gets up to 5"
- and a very beautiful purple jewel called "lifali jewel cichlid". it get's up to 5" and requires a 30g+, it does say it's quite aggressive and therefore should be housed with similar sized fish and lots of rocks. found him at petsolutions.

and then the firemouth which both of you have already said would work.

i would like to have just these 5 different fish of about the same size and temperament. i really do want your honest opinions, and i'm really interested why i should keep africans out of the tank if i have exactly the right set-up for them.

4 new cichlids of about 5 - 6" and my pair of kribs around 4" too many for my 46g?

but thanks guys! you did help a lot. (lol, i get why your both so against the salvini....did some more research on him and yeah, i don't guess he would work - he's beautiful tho! pet solutions doesn't quite describe him correctly).

[rmcder]

Based on what you wrote, I assume your pH is around 7.5-8? If so, then the pH requirements for Africans would be reasonable. There IS another issue, though, in that the dietary requirements are also different. New World cichlids typically need a high protein diet (not all of them), while Africans typically need more vegetable matter in their diet. There're good reasons why people do not recommend mixing cichlids from the two continental areas. That said, some do mix them successfully, but I wouldn't recommend you try it until you are more experienced.

[Slappy*McFish]

on a lot of my selections you wrote "Incompatible water requirements". it took me a bit but i believe the reason you put that there is because these were african cichlids whereas my kribensis are american. i have heard that you .

Actually, Kribensis are a West African river species of cichlid. Even so, their water requirements are still very different from that of the rift lake cichlids.
I too would avoid mixing rift lake cichlids with other cichlids. Malawi and Tanganyikan(the 2 rift lakes) cichlids really should not be mixed with one another, either.

I would stay away from Firemouths and would go with Dwarf Cichlids from S. America (Rams/Apistos), Keyhole, Cupid, Rainbow, or Acara with your tank size and tank mates.

[biancaj]

k, thanks again :)
that's actually kind of embarrasing now that i got my own fishies location wrong. and their pic is the one where you enter "misc. african cichlids" or whatever it was on liveaquaria. i must have clicked on it a hundred times.

and i meant to mention it but forgot. i have a a ph of about 8.

i am kind of disappointed that such few fish will work in my tank. i was hoping to get some with a bit more of a temperament. and i've noticed that the more colorful ones are even more aggressive. but i'm rather attached to my kribs. they're so sweet together and defenitly have personality. i also wanted some in the range of 6 inches.

thank you for your advise. i will defenitly listen to you more experienced fish keepers. i would kick myself if i lost my kribs just because i was to stubborn.

but if by any chance someone knows of a more colorful fish that would work i would love to hear about it. it doesn't have to be on liveaquaria. we did have some great experience with them but that doesn't mean they're the only place out there. (my husband got two german rams from their website for his 55g community tank. beautiful!)

thanks guys! i just started out with my hopes way too high.

[Slappy*McFish]

With your pH of 8, most African Rift cichlids would do just fine. Just be careful which species you mix together. If your Kribs are doing great in your tank, I don't see any problem mixing them with some small mbuna (lake Malawi) OR some small cichlids from Lake Tanganyika.
http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/cichlids_african/african_cichlids_tanganyika.htm#top2
http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/cichlids_african/african_cichlids_table.htm#top2

[wataugachicken]

What about apistogrammas? They stay small, but they have a lot of color:

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=120&Itemid=34