Question on Kuhli Loaches...

[JamisonBWolsh]

Here a question to all you Kuhli lovers out there...

I have a 10 gallon that I re-designed after selling all my albino pleco babies. I add about an inch of black sand and a large white Honeycomb rock in the center of it.

At first, I wanted to get a few shelldwellers, but I found out they can be aggressive to each other, so no to them!

This is my plan. 6 Gold cloud Mountain minnows with 8 Khuli's. So what do you think? will 8 khulis be over crowded... they dont produce much wastes and it is filtered by an aquaclear mini. They can borrow in the sand or hide in the many holes and tunnels of the honeycomb rock. Can I get more than 8 khulis? Thanks for your help! I know the more you get the more they come out...

I am not interested in breeding these guys, just watching them because I been told they can be interesting to watch...

[ChilDawg]

Since they (kuhlis) can get to be 3" a piece, I don't know if those 8 would fit on the bottom of a 10 standard w/o some possible intraspecific aggression issues, and, even with the extra rocks, you will have filtration issues. I think that a 20 gallon might be okay for that group.

[JamisonBWolsh]

They do get to 3 inches in length, but they are width impaired :). Skinnier than a worm IMO. A Normal Loach would not fit at 3 inches (not even one), but I was thinking that if I had 8 than they will feel very safe with each other. I am also thinking if I had enough places for them to live, 8 would be good? ? ? Any Ideas?


A Honey comb Rock is great. The peice I have has Many tunnels and holes in it for them to have fun in!

[ChilDawg]

Okay, you've convinced me on the kuhlis, and I see that part, but have you thought about throwing in a little extra filtration? The WCMMs would enjoy that, as they are riverine and also cooler-water species, and thus get more oxygen in their water (and need that).

[JamisonBWolsh]

Yea...I will have to make sure there is alot of circulation for more o2 (bubbles, casacding water).

I was hoping I can get a reply from someone who owns them and understands their behavior. I cant believe this! I have looked EVERYWHERE for GOLD wcmm and Kuhli's and cant find one! Before, when I did not want them, they were in practically every LFS! Go figure. Murphy's law I guess....

[ChilDawg]

You might try pm-ing OrionGirl, b/c I know that she has Kuhlis or has had them in the past.

Sorry that I can't help you much further, but I haven't owned them. I hope that I helped some...

~Matthew

[ChilDawg]

The gold WCMMs are available from Drs. Foster and Smith, but they might be a bit expensive with shipping factored in: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=952

[OrionGirl]

I don't think 8 kuhlis will be a problem at all. I have 5 in a planted 5 gallon tank with a trio of dwarf gouramies, and the kuhli's are always a tangle underneath the wood in the tank, or playing together in the sand. As long as the water quality stays in good shape, they should be fine. Make sure the sand is smooth, as they don't like sharp edges.

I have three tanks with them--one that has 2 solid juveniles from my main tanks 2nd spawning, the main tank that has...lesseee...I think about 12 or 13 solids (2 adults, 3 spawns) and one large striped, and the 5 striped kuhlis at work. They are great in groups, very social. Make sure the tank is well covered--those stream lined bodies are great at launching themselves out of the water.

[JamisonBWolsh]

How do you know if the sand is "sharp"? I did buy the black sand from a LFS. I cant find any kuhli;s around (go figure), so I have to wait. I wanted the 6 gold WCMM for added color. Should look nice with the black sand and background. My goal is to have many so they can feel comfortable and "hang out" more during the day...
I was able to find one black kuhli at a LFS for 3.00 I may buy him so at least i will have one khuli in the tank and later on, when I can find some khuli's, buy 8 of the normal ones. They really do seem like a perfect fish for a small tank. PLUS they have personality (them being a loach and all).

Oriongirl: at what limit would it be starting to feel overcrowded? In total, I would have the 1 black one and 8 regular ones....Thanks for the help!

[OrionGirl]

I wouldn't mix the kuhli's--the solids and the striped don't mingle in my tank. The lone striped kuhli has made friends with the weather loach and the spiny eels, but he avoids the solids for the most part.

In a 10, I would put more than 8 or 9, mostly because they can be hyper active at times, and that many zooming bodies can startle any tankmates pretty good.

[ChilDawg]

Did you mean to say that you would NOT put more than 8 or 9?

[OrionGirl]

Ummm....Yes. Sheesh--that is the 2nd time I've skipped adding the negative. Thanks for the catch!

[JamisonBWolsh]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
I wouldn't mix the kuhli's--the solids and the striped don't mingle in my tank. The lone striped kuhli has made friends with the weather loach and the spiny eels, but he avoids the solids for the most part.

In a 10, I would put more than 8 or 9, mostly because they can be hyper active at times, and that many zooming bodies can startle any tankmates pretty good.

Hehe.. Yes.. I know you meant no more than 8 or 9. Which kuhli loach do YOU prefer? The solid black ones... or the normal orange/black striped ones? The colored ones are much more colorfull, yet not as active during the day as I am told. The black ones are active, yet boring in color. Especially with black sand...

do you know if the kuhli is available year long or seasonal? I been to most of the LFS and none of them have them. I know when I was not interested in them, they were easy to get. But now....

[OrionGirl]

I think they are seasonal--this is one of the fish that is still predominantly wild caught. Very few breed in the home aquaria. When I first mentioned that mine had, I actually had people tell me I was mistaken. Like I somehow added a bunch of juveniles without knowing! :rolleyes:

I like both of them! I guess I'd have to say the striped ones are prettier, but I don't think they less active--they just don't like busy tanks. I can look over at my little 5 right now and see 3 of the 5, just nosing around the plants and sand. I think they get a bad rep because they are aften kept in such small groups--a pair isn't as active as a pile. I can vouch for that with my solids--when it was just the adult pair, they came out for feeding, or a few times in the day. Now, I see them constantly, nosing through the substrate, playing in the plants, all over. They have such cute faces! :)

[JamisonBWolsh]

Haha... yes, they are a NICE fish! :) I did read that VERY few people have bred them in the past. You are one of them, so you should be very proud of yourself! From what i read, they are hard to breed in a tank. In your opinion, should I get the black khuli now, and then wait for the 8 colored kuhli, or should I NOT get the black khuli, and wait for the colored kuhli?
As you said, the black kuhli will not "play" with the other khulis (when I get them) and will be lonely by himself. If i get the black one, then I would have to find 2 more so he wont be by himself. That would total 11 khulis and that might be to much. Also, having just one type instead of 2 might look better? what do you think? Thanks...

[OrionGirl]

I would pass on the black. The reason I have a solo striped kuhli in with the pack of blacks is that he survived in a tank--he'd gotten under the UGF, and I didn't know about it until I tore the tank apart, months after he'd gone missing. I rescued him from the gravel, and put him in the 40 I setup. Felt bad, so tried to find him some friends, and found the blacks first. Bought a trio, had one jump. The striped never chummied up to the blacks, and it would be almost impossible to get him out of the tank now--they are dreadfully hard to catch.

I am proud of my little family. Wish I knew why they are so happy (there are at least 3 age classes in there now!) so I could share the information with others. Just this weekend, I did a water change and saw 4 of the little buggers, just under a half an inch. It amazing--they swim away, curl around a rock and blend in so well--you know it's there, but it's hard to see. The very small ones have taken to hanging out in the cave with my L168, who doesn't mind sharing his hidey hole with a pile of squirmy loaches.

[anonapersona]

The 3 or 4 accounts I've read of accidental breeding all had a cozy hide away, either a cave provided, or one the kuhlis created by digging under a plant, or a stand of plants so thick that it was cave-like.

So, I've gotten a bit of bogwood that has enough recesses in it for eggs to escape being eaten, and turned it face down in the gravel. The "door" faces away from the glass, but they do seem to have moved in.

I've been feeding shrimp pellets and a variey of other dry food, plus some live brine shrimp but the cardinals and tetras got all that. Love must be in the air, though, as the Serpae tetras were going at it this morning and no one wanted breakfast, I guess they had a caviar buffet. Maybe the kuhils got enough fresh eggs to stimulate their own hormones.

did you ever see your getting fat, or any spawning, or did the babies just show up?

[OrionGirl]

They just showed up. When it was just the pair of them, neither fish was prone to spending much time out in the open. Now that there's a colony, I see the adults all the time, and I have noticed that the female gets a bit wider, more triangular shaped than the male. It's more noticable after the fact, when she's suddenly her normal sleek self. I can't confirm it, but I think the male is much more active--charging around the tank, then wiggling pass the female, then charging around again --as part of a courting behavior. Who knows-- could be coincidence.

I have removed some of the babies--I was sneaky. I waited until they'd curled up for the night, and pulled one of the chunks of wood out of the tank and put it in another tank. Managed to get 3 babies out that way!

[anonapersona]

Any suggestions for feeding?