Welcome to AquariaCentral.com

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be entering into a wonderful world of aquatic information, for all aquarists, no matter what their experience level.

Our members will do their best to help you in your aquarium endeavors. We have a vast assortment of Forums to dive into:

-General Freshwater
-Marine and Brackish area
-Terrarium and Vivariums
-Coldwater
-DIY, Classifieds, Members Tanks Photographs and more.

We even have a general area, that is just as much fun as the rest of the Community, for off topic discussions and a real-time chat room for instant advice!

Joining Aquaria Central has numerous benefits, but the best, is our 112,000+ members, helping one another in this fascinating hobby!

Register now, and be sure to check out our scheduled contests with exciting prizes!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Welcome to the Internet's friendliest aquatic forum!

- Team AC

Sign Up

Beginners Discus Article

Discussion in 'Cichlids' started by NatakuTseng, Sep 17, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. NatakuTseng

    NatakuTseng I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Do I have to have one?
    Location:
    Vermont
    Kings of the Freshwater Aquarium….the Discus


    Introduction: Many people from time to time have been lingering through their local LFS and come across what is simply one of the most amazing freshwater fish you could ever own, a discus. Many of us were bit by the bug right then and there and did something we shouldn’t have, an impulse buy, while many of us were simply scared away by the price of the fish itself or the “delicate” rap they have gotten. Yes they are expensive fish, and yes they require more care than most other fish species, but they are not delicate fish by any means if given the right conditions to live in, its simply giving them what they need to live.

    Discus are a fish that is native to South America, they come in many natural colors and patterns, and many many different locations and several countries. There are also two different species of discus, Symphysodon discus, and Symphysodon aequifasciatus, and many many different subspecies. Both species can regularly interbreed with each other, and most of the domestic color stains available are probably hybrids between the two species. The fish get fairly good sized around 8inches from head to tail and that big or larger up and down. A larger aquarium is essential for them, as they also like to be kept in-groups, but will also do fine in pairs. Ideally a tank no smaller than 38 gallons should be used when housing a single pair, and better yet would be at least a 55 gallon for a group of 4, The fish belong to the Cichlidae family and despite their delicate and peaceful reputations, they can be rather aggressive toward not only each other, but other tank mates as well, above all remember they are cichlids and do display behavior characteristics of that family. Sexual dimorphism is basically non-existent in discus both sexes look identical outside of spawning, and grow to be the same sizes. The only time that one can accurately sex a discus is when they are spawning and the papilla is visible. They come in a very wide variety of colors and strains, and new ones are being introduced every day. There is one wild strain of the fish that to my knowledge has met very limited success in being bred in captivity, the Heckle (Symphysodon discus). Heckles are no more difficult to keep than any other discus strain, but when it comes to breeding they seem to be a very difficult fish to get interested. The issue isn’t with the males as they will readily pair off with and spawn with females of other strains and produce offspring, the problem arises from the female, who for whatever reason will not lay eggs even if paired up with a suitable and fertile male. Thus 99% of the heckles sold are wild caught.

    When it comes to the care of discus it’s a bit more involved than most other fish, but not much more. The largest factor from my experience in keeping these wonderful fish is the water temperature; it’s the absolutely most critical key to keeping these fish healthy. For juvenile fish the water temperature should be no less than 86 degrees F, the reasoning behind this is because their metabolisms function better at this high temperature and help their immune systems functioning at their best possible levels. This helps the fish remain healthy, when the temperature drops lower than that they are at a much higher risk of getting infections and disease. Water quality is also a very key factor, over filtration is not a bad thing with any fish species, but even more so with discus its almost essential. Keeping the nitrates low help the fish maintain good growth and good shape, water changes are required to keep the nitrates at a minimal level, and a water change of at least 40% should be done every other day, if not every day. Another reason for these frequent water changes is that discus, like all other fish, emit growth inhibiting hormones into the water, and the only ways to get rid of them are through water changes. Discus emit a very large amount of these hormones and can become stunted very quickly if the water is not turned over enough. Water pH is not as critical as most people believe it to be, a pH of 8.0 or under is perfectly suitable for captive raised discus. Its simply a matter of properly acclimating the discus to your water conditions slowly from those that the breeder or wholesaler was keeping them at. Where the pH becomes critical is when one is breeding the fish, in harder water the eggs are not as easily fertilized, and so the hatch out rate will be much lower than that in a soft acidic water. Diet is another very very critical part of keeping discus. In the wild discus are mainly insectivores, meaning they prey on insects. Insects are very high in protein, and discus need a high protein diet in captivity as well. For juvenile discus feeding 6-8 times daily, in small portions will promote optimal growth. When doing this a bare bottom tank is best used as it is easier to water changes and clean up, daily water changes are essential for this kind of a set up, but your discus will grow much quicker. Often discus can reach a size of around 6 inches in under 10months and may even begin breeding at that size. A good diet for discus would include brine shrimp, bloodworms, freeze-dried tubiflex worms, a high quality staple granule type food (tetra color bits and Sera Discus color are good staples), beefheart food mix, and when large enough mysis shrimp are an excellent source of protein. Frequent, small feedings are essential to promoting fast growth. For adult fish feedings can be done twice a day, and water changes can be cut back to 2 times a week, and the water temperature can be dropped down a few degrees as their immune systems are fully functional, and they will not be growing as quickly.

    Contrary to popular belief discus do not have to be kept sole in a species type tank. Discus are easily spooked and intimidated so tank mates need to be chosen fairly wisely due to that factor but also because the tank mates your choosing need to be able to tolerate the high temperature and conditions that the discus require. Very often cardinal tetras, harlequin rasboras, rummynose tetras, and glowlight tetras are kept with discus as a shoaling species, they can tolerate the high temperature and will not frighten the discus. If keeping discus in a planted tank, and also keep in mind that water changes in a planted tank should be done much less frequently than a bare bottom tank as it will effect the health of your plants, a good clean up crew is essential, otos, farlowella, bristlenose plecos, L-46 zebra plecos, Siamese algae eaters, and Amano shrimp are just a few examples of fish that do well with discus. There are many more out there, just make sure they are compatible to both the water conditions and the discus.

    When purchasing your discus there are several things you need to look for. First is overall health of the fish, are they active, are they feeding or looking for food, are the fins clamped, are any fins damaged, is there any signs of bacterial or fungal infections? All those are questions you need to run through if purchasing fish from your LFS, and especially for discus. Shape is the next thing to look for. When picking a discus you should be picking a fish that is round. To determine if the fish is round you need to look at the muscular sections of the dorsal and anal fins, along with the body. It should form a round shape or close to it, if it looks footballed the fish is most likely stunted or genetically inferior and should be avoided. Eye size to the body size is another key to determining how good the fish is, the eye should look small compared to the body, if it appears large, the fish is probably stunted. Other deformities to avoid are chipped eyes, a humped forehead, and malformed fins. Also look for malnourished fish. This is easily done by looking head on at a fish. The body should continue in a nice smooth transition for the body size to the fin size and be almost rounded, if the fish looks like it slopes up too quickly to the fin size, called a knife-back, the fish is malnourished, the back of the fish looks like it has been pinched. Avoid purchasing fish under 2.5 inches if at all possible, these fish are still very young often not much more than a month old, and their immune systems are not fully developed and even if kept in proper conditions they often do not adjust and will fall ill. Keep in mind that most of the Discus that are purchased by local fish stores are actually culled fish from Asia, and often will have some of the deformities listed. A much better way to get good quality discus is to buy from a local breeder if possible, or order fish over the internet from many of the breeders located in your country. These breeders will only sell top-notch fish and you will get your money’s worth, very often the fish are guaranteed to have a bill of health for several days after getting them as long as your water conditions are appropriate for them. As always with any new fish you receive you need to quarantine your discus for a minimum of 4 weeks after receiving them. During this time your water temperature in the Q tank should be set around 90 degrees F for the first few days, and then dropped back down to a normal temperature between 86 and 88. Observe the fish and treat appropriately at the first signs of any ailment. Adding salt and melafix to the tank is recommended for the first week or two even if there is no sign of illness. During this time period you should adjust the discus to your water, and get them to adjust their diet to what you will be feeding them, they can be very finicky eaters at times, but will eventually take what you offer them. Healthy fish will learn to recognize you as a food source and will rush to the front of the tank to greet you, look for this while Quarantining your fish as signs of health.

    Once discus are established in your aquarium they are actually quite hardy fish. They are fairly delicate during the adjustment process and young fish are even more so, but they will quickly get established to your tank if given the right care. Meeting their needs is the most pressing issue and if done they will reward you with beauty and majesty. After keeping discus and watching them grow up and exhibit their brilliant colors and patterns, you will see why they are called the Kings of the Freshwater aquarium.

    I hope this helps all of you looking into getting discus and maybe even some of you who already have the discus. The goal of this was to simply explain what is needed to keep these wonderful and beautiful fish healthy and understandable for the average person who is thinking about taking a chance on them.


    Brian W.
     
  2. PumaWard

    PumaWard In loving memory of Meeko

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Vermont
    Additional Information

    In addition, I am going to post a picture of a footballed, stunted fish and a fairly round, well proportioned fish. Both fish are juvenilles, and I pointed out qualities that the poorer fish lacked the the decent fish has. Please excuse the poor picture quality.

    Pictured below is a footballed discus that Nataku and I bought at the LFS
    [​IMG]

    Now, a decent discus that we bought at the same LFS that day. Once we get more round juvenilles, I will replace this one.
    [​IMG]

    Also, I am going to add common diseases and ailments of discus that we have experienced and the treatments we have use. If you notice something incorrect, please let me know and I'll correct it ASAP.

    Unless most fish in a tank are infected or possibly infected (mainly concerning ich), diseased fish should be move to a quarentine tank if they are not already in one.

    Constipation
    Symptoms:Stomach region looks bloated. Fish are dark in color, they may hide in the corner of the aquarium and refuse to eat. Fish exhibits heavy breathing and waves pectoral fins wildly about in an effort to stay upright. The fish may head or tail stand; in more severe cases may even float to the top of the aquarium.
    Cause:
    Over eating, quick and vast change in diet, poor/unvaried diet.
    Treatment
    Epsoms salt at 1-2 tablespoons/10g. May dose again if no excretion in 4-5 hours.

    Ich
    Symptoms White speckles or pimple-like cysts all over the body and mainly on fins. Scratching often on decor, aquarium walls, and floor. May darken in color and hide.
    Cause: Parasitic infection. Fish are usually weakened by stress from too low of a temperature, poor water quality, and adjusting to a new home. Discus shouldn't come down with ich if maintained at proper temperatures (84f-88F for juvenilles, 82F-86F for adults).
    Treatment: The best treatment for discus is the heat/salt treatment. Slowly, over the period of a day, raise the temperature to 88-90F and add table salt at 1tbsp/5g. Continue treatment for 7 days, heat may be brought down to 86F when cysts are no longer visible on the fish.

    Gill Flukes
    Symptoms: Fish scratch gill plate on objects and breath heavily. Often, discus will clamp one gill plate shut while breathing heavily through the other.
    Cause: Often fish come to keepers already with flukes. Current fish may get it through impoper quarentine procedures as well as through improper husbandry.
    Treatment: Similiar to ich treatment. Raise temperature to 88F and add salt at 1tbsp/5g. Increase surface aggitation (bubble wand, HOB filter) and add formalin based medication (Quik Cure) @ recommended dose. I would keep up heat, surface aggitation and salt for a week after discontinued use of formalin.

    Bacterial skin and fin infection (Discus Plague)
    Symptoms: Fish usually turn black and hide, body is covered in a thin, gray slime, fins will have cloud white edges... finrot may be present. Fish rarely eat. Fish may scratch body on objects.
    Causes: Usually improper quarentine coupled with improper husbandry (stress and exposer).
    Treatment: Lower heat to 84F(juvenilles) or 82F(adults). Add 1tbsp table salt/5g. Increase water changes and treat with anti-bacterial remedy (maracyn, baktopur, etc) and follow package directions. When infection is unresponsive to remedy, drastic measures may be taken... carefully net the fish, take it out of the water, and carefully drip Betadine on infected areas with a cotton swab, avoiding gills, eyes, and mouth (basically the head region).

    Fungal Infections
    Symptoms: White cottony puffs on fish, usually on wounds. Fish darken in color, don't eat, and may become lethargic.
    Cause: Improper quarentine and husbandry.
    Treatment: Keep temperature at a steady 84-86F. Add salt at 1tbsp/5g. Treat with anti-fungal remedy. Swab fungus gently with a Betadine soaked cotton swab if nothing else works.

    Intestinal Parasites
    Symptoms: Slightly bloated stomach accompanied by white stringy, or white mucoid feces. Fish may darken, hide, and refuse food in more severe cases.
    Cause:Often fish are diseased when bought and were not treated during quarentine for it. May also occur through eating frozen or live food containing parasites (tubifex is a common one).
    Treatment: Metronidazole (I don't know dosage, so further research) or medications containing it.. I've had success with Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear fizz tabs. JL's pepso food may also help. Feeding garlic-laced foods can discourage parasites.


    HTH further.
     
    #2 PumaWard, Sep 20, 2004
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2004
  3. PumaWard

    PumaWard In loving memory of Meeko

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Vermont
    Discus may be kept in a planted tank with 2X a week water changes; but it is best to go with adults that way or to raise the juveniles the BB route. Juveniles can be raised with 1-2X a week water changes and 2X a day feedings, but their growth will be much slower, so if your patient, it's fine to go that route. If you look at Cearbhail's discus page, I believe she follows basic tropical fish maintainence and feeding and her discus look awesome.
     
    #3 PumaWard, Sep 21, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2004
  4. anonapersona

    anonapersona Reads a lot, knows a little

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Houston
    water change and fish stocking

    If you are not able to change water frequently you need to keep less fish per gallon and have better filtration. If you keep the tank very clean, and do not let any food decay in the tank you can have slightly more fish per gallon. The pH of the tank water will also affect fish health.

    IMO, discus are like orchids, very pretty and very exotic and while some find them easy to grow, with the right sort of care, others find them difficult.
     
  5. NikkO

    NikkO AC Members

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita,Ca
    Links for research

    I thought that this thread could use some links for those who want to know about discus so here:

    Discus Forums
    www.simplydiscus.com/forum
    www.discusrealms.com
    www.awforum.net/discus/
    www.discusasahobby.com/ -also known as DAAH

    Places to Look For Discus
    www.aquabid.com
    www.ebay.com -not many auctions for them but sometimes there are some

    Western US
    www.discusfarm.us/
    www.majesticaquatic.com

    International
    www.discushabitat.com/
    www.fishiotribe.com.sg/ourdiscus.html
    www.superiordiscus.com/

    Great Lakes Area
    www.greatlakesdiscus.com/
    www.rockymountaindiscus.com/Default.htm

    Eastern US
    www.discushatchery.com/
    www.wattleydiscus.com/ -has several distrbutors thorught the US

    More links about discus can be found here: http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/links.shtml#2
     
    #5 NikkO, Oct 14, 2004
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2004
  6. NatakuTseng

    NatakuTseng I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Do I have to have one?
    Location:
    Vermont
    One of the better breeders out west I think is this guy http://www.sunrisetropicals.com His name is Tony Peng, Puma and I ordered 8 fish from him and I am very impressed. His fish are on the lower end of the price scale, but the qaulity is amazing.
     
  7. PumaWard

    PumaWard In loving memory of Meeko

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Vermont
  8. Dale W.

    Dale W. Formerly known as "Reefscape"

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 1998
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Reefsystems set-up, analysis, and maintenance
    Location:
    Koloa, Kauai, Hawaii
    Since you guys are putting in shameless plugs, I will to :D

    www.HawaiiDiscus.com

    This is not only a good friend of mine but someone that I would highly recomend to anyone looking for top of the line grade A fish. The fish that he brings in are some of the nicest I have seen in all my years of fishkeeping.
     
  9. FishFreak101

    FishFreak101 AC Members

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Whats the minium tank size for discus?
     
  10. NatakuTseng

    NatakuTseng I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Do I have to have one?
    Location:
    Vermont
    Hmm surprised I missed that. My reccomended minimum tank size for people starting out would be a 55gal for 6 adult discus as a max. A 38 gal would do for a mated pair, but 55s are much better.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

zoomed.com
tfhmagazine.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store