Welcome to AquariaCentral.com

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be entering into a wonderful world of aquatic information, for all aquarists, no matter what their experience level.

Our members will do their best to help you in your aquarium endeavors. We have a vast assortment of Forums to dive into:

-General Freshwater
-Marine and Brackish area
-Terrarium and Vivariums
-Coldwater
-DIY, Classifieds, Members Tanks Photographs and more.

We even have a general area, that is just as much fun as the rest of the Community, for off topic discussions and a real-time chat room for instant advice!

Joining Aquaria Central has numerous benefits, but the best, is our 112,000+ members, helping one another in this fascinating hobby!

Register now, and be sure to check out our scheduled contests with exciting prizes!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Welcome to the Internet's friendliest aquatic forum!

- Team AC

Sign Up

Dwarf Gourami with Hole-in-the-Head??

Discussion in 'Freshwater Illness and Disease' started by joel.uejio, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Begin new illness thread...

    I noticed today that my dwarf gourami has a deep lesion on his head above his eyes. It kind of looks like hole-in-the-head to me, but I'm not very familiar with all flavors of freshwater illness yet, so not sure.

    He's acting healthy and eating. Tank params are NH3=0, NO2=0, NO3=15-25. He's in a 20g long with 7 zebra danios, 6 julii cories, and a few odd mystery snails. I've had him 4 months now.

    Here are some pics. Can someone please help me confirm a diagnosis and suggest a treatment???

    sick dg 1.JPG

    sick dg 2.JPG

    Thanks!
     
  2. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Based on what I've read I'm think about just adding some table salt for now to stimulate slime coat growth and see if the little guy can fight off whatever is causing the wound....

    Yes? No? Other thoughts?
     
  3. fabiobruno

    fabiobruno AC Members

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Bristol (UK)
    Based on my recent experience (gourami infected wound thread) I'd also add some antibacterial... dwarf gourami seem to be very susceptible to diseases.
    Any recent change on your tank?
     
  4. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've added a 50/50 light recently, and a few new plants. I feel like the wound may have started a while back and I'm just now noticing it, so I'm not sure when it actually started.

    I read through your illness thread -- sorry you lost your gourami. I'm having a lot of trouble sifting through all of the different recommendations out there, but I've read some posts that Melafix + Pimafix is a good treatment for treating / preventing infections. I picked up these items, so will probably start a treament cycle tonight.

    I don't think I've seen any posts about salt helping with infections, so I'm now planning on NOT dosing any salt...

    Appreciate any comments from folks out there.
    Thanks!
     
  5. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, removed carbon, dosed with 10 mL Pimafix and 10 mL Melafix....no immediate changes -- we'll see how things look tomorrow.
     
  6. fabiobruno

    fabiobruno AC Members

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Bristol (UK)
    Yep, Lucy didn't make it but maybe because I treated as a fungus a bacterial infection.... Using a pinch of salt and the interpet anti bacterial (I guess equivalent to Melafix) is doing the trick for the male gourami :)

    Apparently a small amount of salt is useful for a lot of things, in your case would prevent fungus to form on a wound, would help against osmosis issues (possible with open wounds) and in general would reduce the stress.

    But again I'm not an expert, my opinion is just based on my recent experience and on a bit of reading.... I'm sure there are plenty of people in this forum better qualified to give you suggestions.

    Guys! Anybody there?
     
  7. mel_20_20

    mel_20_20 AC Members

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Licensed optician...presently sorta retired.
    Location:
    Deep in the heart of texas
    I'm not experienced with HITH, but I've seen pictures. The first pic is really difficult, but the second one tells a bit more, to my eye. Do you have anything in the tank that he may have bumped into, that could have caused an injury?

    There seems to be redness, and a raw look in the second picture. The photos I've seen of HITH don't have a raw, or skinned look. Just a pitting of the area, with no redness. I'm certainly not an expert and I hope someone else will be along that knows more about HITH.

    Your parameters indicate the water quality is good, but what kind of testing equipment do you use, strips or liquid test kit?

    I would step up your water changes to make sure the water is pristine and watch for signs of infection. If you use test strips it is advisable to get the liquid testing kit.
    Strips can give false readings.

    It would be helpful if you could get better photos. I hope your Gourami will be OK.
     
  8. jpappy789

    jpappy789 Plants need meat too

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    26,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Graduate student
    Location:
    Gainesville, FL
    Have to agree that it doesn't look like the typical HITH/HLLE infection. Pretty much what Mel said, it looks reddish.
     
  9. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the replies all...here are some responses:

    I'm using the API Master Test Kit (liquid)

    I recently added a heater -- could he have burned himself on that? If so, do I need to make a change, or should I just treat the wound and assume he's learned not to get too close..?

    I also have a few coconut caves and red lava rock, both of which might have some sharp edges. Should I remove all that and replace with wood and/or smoother rock?

    Since it seems less likely that he has an actual bacterial or fungal infection, I think I'll just do a water change now and skip the meds.

    Should I add salt? I have *all* different kinds of salt, but can't seem to find a consistent recommendation on what to use and in what percentage.

    Thanks much!
     
  10. jpappy789

    jpappy789 Plants need meat too

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    26,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Graduate student
    Location:
    Gainesville, FL
    I'd guess bacterial over fungal.

    Wish I could help w/ a specific med recommendation though.
     
  11. KarlTh

    KarlTh AC Members

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not an obvious case for salt. There's no sign of fungus in there; could be bacterial or could be traumatic. Either way I'd go for lots of water changes and observation.
     
  12. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tried getting some better pics (see below). The wound kind of looks like someone chewed on him, but I'm sure that's not it. He's in with cories, danios and some snails.

    I did another WC just now -- wound looks about the same size, and dg still not showing any other symptoms.

    Any thoughts on what I'm dealing with here?

    pet0003.JPG

    pet0007.JPG
     
  13. Cerianthus

    Cerianthus AC Members

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does it seems to be spreading/getting larger or even fluffy/cottony growth?

    Do you have breeder trap or any clear plastic container (carbon jar)?

    And I will assume water condition is not an issue here or was he exposed to extreme water condition?
     
  14. mel_20_20

    mel_20_20 AC Members

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Licensed optician...presently sorta retired.
    Location:
    Deep in the heart of texas
    I've read that Zebra Danios can be semi-agressive, and can be a bit nippy. I wonder if they may be harassing your Gourami, causing him to flee and perhaps run into something sharp. This could have happened at night when you aren't looking at them.

    Could you show us a full tank shot? It would help to see any structures you have in there that the Gourami may have run into. Lava rock is pretty rough, and it could be possible that he might have a scrape from the coconut cave if he tried to enter one, or if he accidently ran into one of them.

    I would move him out of the tank with the Danios and continue to provide pristine water, absolutely pure with no traces of ammonia or nitrite. I would monitor him for signs of infection, but I wouldn't start medicating him unless you do see any signs of infection.

    Fish have remarkable recuperative powers when provided with good clean water and a stress free, (as much as possible), enviornment.

    Get some Prime, by Seachem if you can. Prime is a great water conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramines, but it also helps by detoxifying ammonia and nitrite traces that may appear while your Gourami is "in hospital".

    You still need to remove any traces of ammonia and nitrite by doing frequent water changes within twenty-four hours of dosing Prime. (that's about how long it works to detox those harmful by-products)

    I hope your little guy will be OK.
     
  15. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good questions and comments...here are some responses:

    I don't think the wound is getting bigger, but not sure. Not seeing any cottony fluff in it, just ragged skin and some pink fish flesh.

    Water conditions have been at NH3=0, NO2=0, NO3=15-30 for a long time now. Tested today and they're at [0, 0, 5] (I guess b/c I've done wc's for the past 3 days).

    Actually, I thought of something else that could be a factor. I had an ich outbreak a little while ago and treated with API Super Ich Cure. Could that have caused damage? Didn't seem to bother any of my fish at the time..?

    I've never seen the danios chasing or nipping the dg at all, so don't think that's an issue. In terms of whether to ISO him -- I've had some bad luck doing that, so kind of want to leave him in the 20g where he seems happy unless I get to a point where I know there's something in there causing harm, or I see a definite decrease in his health.

    On the subject of Prime, my whole mini pet empire is built around API Tap Water Conditioner, so I'd really like to stay with that unless there's a clear indication that water conditions are causing my problems.

    I'm posting some full tank shots below. Thanks to all who've taken the time to offer questions / suggestions. Please keep 'em coming!

    With flash
    pet0001.JPG

    Without flash (BTW, yes that's a pink dresser :) )
    pet0003.JPG

    Left side
    pet0005.JPG

    Right side
    pet0007.JPG
     
  16. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wound is not getting better and I already have a hospital tank for my sick rainbows so I decided to move the DG in with them.

    So now he's in a 10g with 2 red rainbows and will be getting a Maracyn treatment.
     
  17. lime_smash

    lime_smash AC Members

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    I would say maracyn 2 is your best bet now. It looks an awful lot like the bacterial infection that we see so much with dwarf gourami. They always seem to get these random sores, usually around the head and gill area. Very strange. Good luck with the treatment. Stay on it.
     
  18. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, actually I was wondering about Maracyn 2 for the bows too....looks like more meds for my growing fish pharmacy....

    So, new plan: 2x red bows and dg in a HT, will dose Maracyn and Maracyn 2.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  19. Kivstev

    Kivstev AC Members

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Curious if the topic starter had any luck with treatment? This problem with Dwarf Gourami lesions seems to be a very common one!
     
  20. joel.uejio

    joel.uejio AC Members

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, I have a sick rainbow thread and also this sick DG thread, but now they're all in a 10g hospital tank together so I've been bouncing back and forth with my updates. Here's the situation:

    I ended up getting Furan-2 instead of Maracyn-2 based on LFS availability -- checked it out and saw no warnings about combining. So last night I did my 4th dose of Maracyn and 3rd dose of Furan-2 (DG missed M. dose #1, so he's had 3).

    DG wound is about the same size and he continues to show no other symptoms. I plan to finish out the treatment cycle and then decide what to do. Here's what I'm thinking:

    [A] Do another cycle of these anti-biotics if the bows look like they need it.
    Remove the bows if they're better and switch to Melafix / Pimafix / Salt / ? ... some treatment to help with slime coat production

    I think the plan above is good, but please let me know if anyone out there has any comments!
    Also, I've been getting ammonia readings of .25 since I started meds, but I'm 95% sure that my HT is properly cycled. Anyone know if meds can cause false NH3 readings?

    Thanks!
    Joel
     

Share This Page

zoomed.com
tfhmagazine.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store