Newbie tank cycling issues.

[genki]

Hello all,

I recently purchased a 10 gallon tank after having betta fish for a while. My story is not a long one, but a painful one..

It started with the tank. I purchased this one from petsmart:
http://www.petsmart.com/fish/aquariums-stands/top-fin-10-gallon-aquarium-starter-kit-zid36-17600/cat-36-catid-300013?var_id=36-17600&_t=pfm=category&pfmvalue=faceted

I read the guide here:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Set-Up-and-Maintain-a-10-Gallon-Aquarium-/10000000008726105/g.html

After 24 hours of setting up the tank, I had 5 neon tetras. Everything seemed to be going fine, I had 0/0/5 readings for a full week after adding the tetra, so I thought I would be able to add more fish to it. I purchased an albino bristlenose pleco to add to the tank, and added him that evening. I kept an eye on the readings for the tank, and everything seemed to go well for a week after that. But suddenly, my readings jumped to 1/0/5 across the board. I started doing water changes (50%+) every day, and switched from a 10g filter to a 20g filter (the marineland penguin 100B), but the ammonia was just too much. Most of the fish I had in the tank died off. This is something I was embarrassed to come to this forum to admit, but I am running out of options.

After that, I thought I could just leave the tank to cycle. Ammonia spiked up at 8/0/5ppm, but I never saw nitrites. I left the tank for two weeks, hoping something by magic would happen, but there was nothing. No changes. Ammonia just rose and rose. Finally, after a week I noticed one remaining tetra. Immediately I began water changes, and got ammonia down to .25 ppm. Nitrates somehow ended up at 10-20ppm, which still eludes me, but they have been consistently dropping with every water change.

Once I got ammonia down to .125 ppm by daily 75% water changes, everything looked ok. The next day, ammonia was back up to .5ppm, and even with water changes, its still rapidly rising.

So I apologize, the story was kind of long, but does anyone know what could be happening? Could it be that the second filter is cycling again? If so, why did nitrates go up?

Do I need to just start over with clean everything? Is that the best option at this point?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading.

 

[tanker]

1) Tank was not cycled so ammonia started going up.
2) Just when cycle was becoming stable, your put in a bigger filter, so cycle started again (from ground 0.
3) Until Nitrites start to show, your cycle is still going.

 

[Gregg]

It takes weeks for the bio filtering media to seed. With the Top Fin filter, many are not supplied with any type of bio filter media, so each time you change the cartridge, you are throwing away the bio filter.
Your Penguin has a bio filter (not a very good one IMO), but this still can take 6 weeks to fully seed and you want to make sure to not rinse the 'bio-wheel' on your Penguin filter.

I would suggest when performing water changes that you simply change water and not stir anything up, which may be what you are already doing

You can also use products like Seachem Prime during the process when fish are present to reduce the stress since it turns ammonia to ammonium which is not toxic. It also is a Redox reducer which is important for stress too in fish.

Some Ref.
http://www.fishbeginner.info/home/nitrogen-cycle/
http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/04/aquarium-water-conditioners.html

 

[sumthin fishy]

My sig has a link to a good cycling article. I would test your tap water. That's likely where you got the 5ppm nitrate. You have options for cycling, but at this point you would either have to return the remaining fish (if any) and try a fishless cycle or do daily water changes with fish until the cycle is complete(again refer to the article below) Don't be embarrassed at all. Most of us are here because we did things wrong at first and needed help.

I briefed the article on startup you linked. While some of it is ok, it's not great. You do not need salt for any reason in a healthy tank. It talks about loosing fish to the initial cycle, which is only the case if you do not do daily water changes. This is why some people recommend using feeders for a cycle and to get rid of them after the cycle if they survive. That is extremely irresponsible and not advised by anyone serious about the hobby. With daily water changes most fish will do just fine. It also refers to the "inch per gallon" fallacy. Imagine a ten inch fish in that tank. There are so many variables in fish size in all 3 dimensions, how active they are, as well as if they are better off in groups to make such a broad statement. I would recommend finding what fish you want, make a list and ask what people think here before you buy them. A 10 gallon is a common starter tank, but you are limited to a few small fish and not many of them.

So welcome to the forum and the hobby. Always glad to see someone trying to do it right. Again, don't be scared to make mistakes and ask questions. We are here to help

 

[Brian Feeder of Fish]

It is a little unclear based on your description how long you cycled your tank, but based on your experience, probably not long enough. As the others said, cycling takes a good bit of time, and your filter switch may have messed things up too. Also, I don't believe anyone mentioned, my understanding is that too much water changed at once and regularly does not help the cycle establish.

Do you still have the fish in the tank? If so, I don't know what to recommend, like they said adding a little Prime might help, although it seems like that would hold the cycle back. Maybe try Seachem Stability or other similar products. I've not used it, and I've heard mixed opinions on it, but it might be worth a shot and I don't think it would hurt anything. If the fish is not still there I've heard various ways to start a cycle, including ammonia dosing and just dropping in fish food. In either case if you have a friend with a good tank, you might see about asking for some gravel from his tank to add to the tank and introduce some bacteria, or possibly ask a LFS (local fish store) the same thing.

In the future, once the tank is cycled, the best way to avoid nitrogen problems is to avoid overstocking and keep things clean. The stock list you mentioned is probably ok, but not my area of expertise. On the other half of the deal, overfeeding creates a waste buildup that decays, causing nitrogen problems. These problems can be improved slightly with some live plants, which can pull some nitrAtes out of the water. Keep in mind that plants only help when everything is going all the way through the cycle to nitrAte and they can't really do much about your current situation.

Oh, and I, along with probably everybody here, have had problems of our own creating with nitrogen in one form or another.

Good luck,
Brian

 

[Gregg]

I agree too with the Stability suggestion, as while I personally do not think it will necessarily speed up the process, it certainly can make it safer.

Here is a link testing Seachem Stability:
http://brokenaquarium.com/2015/02/25/experiment-1-cycle-aids-fritz-vs-seachem/

With Prime usage, it is still bio available and should not affect the nitrogen cycle
Here is a quote from the 'Aquarium Answers" site I source:

Please note that when using Prime/Safe (and Amquel Plus) for neutralizing toxic ammonia (NH3) that these products work basically "instantly" by converting toxic ammonia ions into non toxic bio available ammonium (NH4) ions.

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/04/aquarium-water-conditioners.html

BTW, I noticed that the shout out I made for Seachem Prime now goes to an Amazon website that is violating seachem MAP pricing, as someone who works in the industry, I think it is important to support those who truly support the hobbyist such as your LFS or full service online sellers, not Amazon.

G