Censorship at AC

platytudes

platytudes

AC Members
Nov 4, 2006
3,450
0
36
Panama City, FL
Real Name
Nicole
Not trying to get a flame started or anything, but I was just wondering - why exactly does AC edit out the names of big box stores when members post complaints about them?

Is it for legal reasons, or just a courtesy to them?

Because it seems like if it's for legal reasons, a simple "Aquaria Central is not responsible for the content of its pages, opinions belong solely to the individuals posting them" would do the trick.

I just think it's interesting, that's all.

I can definitely see big box stores getting angry when employees divulge company secrets, and perhaps that would be grounds for litigation. But having teenagers say that they suck? People calling their employees incompetent, going on about the terrible living conditions that they have witnessed at their local store? Even if they generalize and say that "all _______s are like this"...why should the company give much of a rat's patootie?

Maybe this is incredibly naive of me, but I would hope that if these big box stores DID see those comments, that they would think to themselves "Hmm, we need to do better."

I know that in many parts of the country, the world's biggest retailer has stopped selling live fish. If that's because 10,000 people said that they suck, that they can't keep a fish alive worth a darn...well, great! (Probably not, probably has everything to do with the bottom line and precious little else, but...)

I mean, I'm just not sure...where does it stop? Many people consider Wardley to be an inferior quality food. It's a "budget" food for sure. If someone says Wardley foods suck, do we need that censored?

What's the difference between saying that and saying, "_____ sucks, every time I buy a fish from there, they die"...?

I am not trying to argue, just would like some clarification. Is it written somewhere what can and can't be said? Are we supposed to just obscure the name of the store for search engine purposes, or bleep out the name so that no one can know what it is?
 
"Because it seems like if it's for legal reasons, a simple "Aquaria Central is not responsible for the content of its pages, opinions belong solely to the individuals posting them" would do the trick."

a simple statement like that won't keep AC safe from being sued... nothing will really. Someone got sued for leaving bad feedback on ebay before, do you think they will not sue the AC has multiple people starting threads about lfs?

AC is doing whats in it's best interest for the forum and it's owner(s). In turn we can all come here and get good info and share stories. I don't really need to know that a lot of LFS suck. Names or not there are good and bad everywhere

product reviews are everywhere, it's your property you bought it. food, filters, heaters. When you attack a LFS it starts to border slander. and legally very hard to defend.
 
AC and it's staff are concerned with promoting the hobby and with threads that mention specific names of any pet store, not just the big box stores, in a negative manner does little to promote the hobby. A point can be made without mentioning specifics as far as the business name.
 
Personally, I don't have a problem with AC censoring the names of stores. As I have seen in many threads, the original gripe usually involves bad stock or dead stock. And, in many cases the person griping about it never took the time to address their concerns with the manager of the store. IMO if you aren't willing to give the store a chance to fix the issues (or if they have a reasonable explanation... some suppliers just have bad stock and this fish don't last), then all you are doing is adding to the problem. The last resort for issues with a store should be a public posting on the internet. To many people prefer to gripe first and complain the next time when they go to the store to see the same issues. IMO, if you aren't willing to talk to the staff about the issue, you have NO room to complain.

For the hobby, I would much rather see someone post the name of a store that did things great. As an example, there is a LFS in Huntsville that (although their prices are higher than the big box stores) has great stock and a wide range, not to mention hard to find fish. I am willing to pay the extra so that a business like that can stay in business, than go to a store with less selection. Plus the staff at the LFS i go to really knows their stuff, and doesn't try to sell you junk just to have you give them more money. They really want your tanks to do well. The hobby would be better served to list the names of the companies or stores doing it right than just griping about an entire chain.
 
nguyendetecting said:
"Because it seems like if it's for legal reasons, a simple "Aquaria Central is not responsible for the content of its pages, opinions belong solely to the individuals posting them" would do the trick."

a simple statement like that won't keep AC safe from being sued... nothing will really. Someone got sued for leaving bad feedback on ebay before, do you think they will not sue the AC has multiple people starting threads about lfs?

AC is doing whats in it's best interest for the forum and it's owner(s). In turn we can all come here and get good info and share stories. I don't really need to know that a lot of LFS suck. Names or not there are good and bad everywhere

product reviews are everywhere, it's your property you bought it. food, filters, heaters. When you attack a LFS it starts to border slander. and legally very hard to defend.
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petluvr said:
AC and it's staff are concerned with promoting the hobby and with threads that mention specific names of any pet store, not just the big box stores, in a negative manner does little to promote the hobby. A point can be made without mentioning specifics as far as the business name.
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both seem to sum it up very nicely. there is legal precedent suing aquarium sites over what members posted. the legal bills to defend the site would be grand. the admin already pays a good amount just to keep the servers and the software upgraded.

personally going back to what petluvr was saying is why promote bad stores. so many people worry about bad stores and never take the time to post about the great ones out there. i would rather talk about how great a good store is vs how a bad one is. i think staying positive is a good way to live. again this is just me personally on the subject.

here are the basic rules for the site.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106848

I am not trying to argue, just would like some clarification. Is it written somewhere what can and can't be said? Are we supposed to just obscure the name of the store for search engine purposes, or bleep out the name so that no one can know what it is?
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the simple way to put it if you are so intent on bashing leave the name out of it. if someone wants it they can pm you.

captaincaveman9 said:
Personally, I don't have a problem with AC censoring the names of stores. As I have seen in many threads, the original gripe usually involves bad stock or dead stock. And, in many cases the person griping about it never took the time to address their concerns with the manager of the store. IMO if you aren't willing to give the store a chance to fix the issues (or if they have a reasonable explanation... some suppliers just have bad stock and this fish don't last), then all you are doing is adding to the problem. The last resort for issues with a store should be a public posting on the internet. To many people prefer to gripe first and complain the next time when they go to the store to see the same issues. IMO, if you aren't willing to talk to the staff about the issue, you have NO room to complain.

For the hobby, I would much rather see someone post the name of a store that did things great. As an example, there is a LFS in Huntsville that (although their prices are higher than the big box stores) has great stock and a wide range, not to mention hard to find fish. I am willing to pay the extra so that a business like that can stay in business, than go to a store with less selection. Plus the staff at the LFS i go to really knows their stuff, and doesn't try to sell you junk just to have you give them more money. They really want your tanks to do well. The hobby would be better served to list the names of the companies or stores doing it right than just griping about an entire chain.
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well written.


also a side note the staff finds no thrill in having to go in and fix stuff like that. its a fine line. no one wants to go in and edit things out but on the other hand the staff is looking to protect the admin and this site for all.
 
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Also....

It's also true that not all big-box stores in the same chain have the same issues. Here in Garner, NC, my local PS has a couple really smart fish guys, great tanks, healthy fish, and good plants. But 10 miles up the road, the next branch is a nightmare. I wouldn't buy a net there, let alone a fish. So it's not really fair to call out every store in a chain for the performance of one or two.
 
The removal of store names has always been the way at AC when its being bashed..Why? Because we ( AC ) dont want any potential backlash from the store itself, as that brings AC in to a bad name...and thats the last thing we want..

Its not hard to leave the store name out of the thread, and put a line at the end stating " If you want to know the name, send me a PM "....is it?

The action, by staff, of removing store names put in a negative light will always continue at AC.
 
Mgamer20o0 said:
also a side note the staff finds no thrill in having to go in and fix stuff like that.
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This is definitely true, it's A LOT of work for mods. I'm sure that practically every day someone gripes about PS or P**co, and then there's that giant retailer again...

In large part that's why I am surprised that it happens, because on a fish forum, you are going to get people complaining about chain pet stores, just like on a car forum you are going to get people complaining about GM. On a food forum, people are going to complain about McDonald's. On a PC forum, people are going to complain about Windows. See what I mean?

product reviews are everywhere, it's your property you bought it. food, filters, heaters. When you attack a LFS it starts to border slander. and legally very hard to defend.

^^ This, is what made the most sense to me. I had not thought of the distinction between property and place.

Like I said, I don't want to start an argument - I'd like to keep this a friendly and productive discussion, if possible! I definitely appreciate all that AC does for the community, as well as the site owner's generosity...I don't want AC to get in trouble just so someone can rant freely...

However looking over the TOS, this seems to be the only guideline:
(b) is knowingly false, and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violation of any law or regulation,

I'm sure 99% of people don't even read the TOS, but I just wonder why the issue of not using the actual names of pet stores when posting negative comments, is not addressed more specifically, since in a fish forum, people will be prone to making negative remarks about pet/fish stores. Sometimes local, but more often chain stores.

I honestly believe that many people have no idea that it is inappropriate to use the actual names! It may seem like common sense to lots of you, but with the internet's "free for all" quality...it isn't.
 
Reefscape said:
The action, by staff, of removing store names put in a negative light will always continue at AC.
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And that is perfectly fine with me! I always try to follow the rules at the playground...:evil_lol:

However with such clear rules everywhere else, posting guidelines on classifieds, etc. I don't think a sticky on the matter, would be such a bad idea. If no one else feels it is necessary, then pardon my obtuseness!

The same vagueness exists with profanity, what is ok and what isn't?

Some people think the word that literally means diminutive donkey is considered profanity (I know I see people typing @ss all the time), same deal for the synonym for Hades...

I really don't think we need a sticky telling us which naughty words are ok and which aren't! Judgment/common sense really does apply here.
 
captaincaveman9 said:
For the hobby, I would much rather see someone post the name of a store that did things great.
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And I completely agree. I love those threads (although I am jealous) where people take pics and show how awesome their LFS is, I prefer compliments to complaints too.

However most people expect living fish, apparently free of disease, and clean looking water.

If the average person could walk into a pet store and find those things, a lot of these rants wouldn't exist, however in isolated areas (and the US is a huge, sprawling place) it is very common to see only chain stores, sometimes only **** selling fish, and it is human nature to focus on the negative and shocking (oh no! dirty water, dead fish!) rather than the positive and subtle (ahh, living fish and clean water)
 
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