First Fishless Cycle - Low pH "Stalling" the cycle?

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Erikajo

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Feb 22, 2007
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Hi everyone! This is my first post here, so please be patient with me!

I am fishless cycling my 29 gallon tank right now. I had a fish tank for several years as a teenager, but I made all the typical newbie mistakes and eventually gave up the hobby when I moved out. Recently I decided to get back into fishkeeping. This time I've been determined to do it "right" and so I did a ton of research before buying my tank and continue to do so as I'm fishless cycling.

Here's a few details I know will probably be asked:
-I set up the tank & used dechlored water via API Tap Water Conditioner
-I have been using ACE's brand of clear Ammonia (10% ammonia hydroxide - nothing else added)
-I have a Whisper Power Filter with the basic white "floss" filter cartridge & nothing added (no charcoal, etc.)
-My temperature is set at 85 degrees and I am running a sponge filter in the corner (to keep seeded for my Q-tank) and I am keeping the water level a couple inches lower
-My city water - kH is 4, GH is 53.7
-Baseline pH is 6.8 out of tap and 7.4 after being treated with conditioner and sitting for 24-48 hours.
-I have been using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit for all my tests
-I did not have access to any "seeding" material - I don't trust the LFS (petco, etc.) and don't have any friends with fish tanks, so I have started from scratch
-Please know that I am not impatient about this, I will wait as long as necessary to get this tank cycled properly before adding fish.

Here's my cycle "journal" so far:
Day 1 - added ammonia
Day 3 - realized ammonia was actually 8 ppm (or possibly higher) and did a 15% water change, bringing the ammonia level down to 5 ppm
Day 11 - Ammonia 4 ppm, nitrites .25 ppm
Day 13 - Ammonia 3 ppm, nitrites .25 ppm
Day 19 AM - Ammonia 2 ppm, nitrites 2 ppm
Day 19 PM - Ammonia 1 ppm, nitrites 4 ppm - added ammonia
Day 20 AM - Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 4 ppm - added ammonia to bring to 4 ppm
Day 20 PM - Ammonia .25 ppm, nitrites 4 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm, pH 7.4 - added ammonia
Day 21 AM - Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 1 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm - added ammonia
Day 21 PM - Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 1 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm - added ammonia
Day 22 AM - Ammonia .50 ppm, nitrites .50 ppm, nitrates 5-10 ppm
Day 22 PM - Ammonia .25 ppm, nitrites .50 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm - added ammonia (4 ppm)
Day 23 AM - Ammonia 2.0 ppm, nitrites .25-.50 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm
Day 23 PM - Ammonia 2.0 ppm, nitrites .25-.50 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm
50 % water change (dechlored water) added ammonia
Day 24 AM - Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 1 ppm, nitrates 0 ppm - added ammonia
Day 24 PM - Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 1 ppm, nitrates 0-5 ppm - added ammonia
Day 25 AM - Ammonia .25 ppm, nitrites .50 ppm, nitrates 0-5 ppm
Day 25 PM - Ammonia 0 ppm, nitrates .50 ppm, nitrates 10 ppm - added ammonia
Day 26 AM - Ammonia 2 ppm, nitrites .50 ppm, nitrates 0-5 ppm
Day 26 PM - Ammonia 2 ppm, nitrites .50 ppm, nitrates 5 ppm, pH 6.0
Day 27 (TODAY) AM - Ammonia 1 ppm, nitrites .50 ppm, nitrates 0-5 ppm, pH 6.0
25% water change (dechlored water), retested levels - Ammonia 1 ppm, pH 6.8, added ammonia
Also tested tank kH - 2.0 / gH 71.6


My question - is the low pH harming or at least somewhat stalling the growth of bacteria? I haven't tested the pH more throughout the cycle as I read that it will fluctuate a lot and it isn't necessarily that important at this point. However upon seeing my ammonia-eating-bacteria dropping off and seeing that my pH is becoming quite acidic, I'm inclined to think that because I have softer water, it is indeed an issue and is stalling the cycle or at least really slowing it down. As you can see from the time I did test the pH, when the ammonia levels started coming down to 0 within 12 or 24 hours, it was higher - 7.4 - and then the bacteria slowed and then increased again after a water change (which I'm guessing upped the pH level.) When they once again slowed down, the pH was very acidic. I'm very interested to see if the ammonia levels drop down quicker when I test this evening as the pH is once again higher.

So if my theory is correct, what should I do to stabilize the pH? I've read about using crushed coral, but the petstore didn't have any. I also heard baking soda mentioned a few times when I was doing a search on here, but that seems to be a short-term solution. Would that work for now or would a longer-term solution like the crushed coral be better in my case?
Any tips? Advice?

Thank you!
 

phanmc

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Jun 24, 2004
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Your pH would need to drop much lower than 6.0 for it to harm the nitrifying bacteria. Whether it slows down the process I don't know.

If you want to stabalize your pH you don't need to tamper with anything, just do water changes more frequently. Once a week or 2 should keep it from dropping as much as you've seen.
 

Rbishop

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I would concentrate on the cycle, and not worry about a pH issue.

What is the pH of your tap water, when left to sit out overnight in a shallow dish?
 

Erikajo

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Feb 22, 2007
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After doing a bunch of searches on this forum, I think it's my low alkalinity that's my problem vs the low pH.

My tap water kH is 4 and after testing my kH earlier (AFTER a partial water change), it was just 2. That's pretty low and it was probably even lower before the water change.

Here's a link to a previous post on here and it sounds very much like my problem:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66570&highlight=cycling+buffering


Judging from this post and the people who responded, it seems that I need to do more frequent water changes to keep the alkalinity higher... That would certainly be safer and less risky IMO than adding baking soda too.

Any opinions on this...?
 

Slappy*McFish

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I would not add buffers or mixes to the 'water' to adjust your pH. If you're concerned about your KH (buffering capacity/ carbonate hardness) add some crushed coral or limestone to your filter or gravel.
 

Gary Powers

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Mar 17, 2007
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Erik - Good for you for going Fishless. I've done this a few times myself.
Just a thought about your cycle and the connected pH:

What additive did you use when you changed your water? Does it at all effect the ammonia?

Here's why I ask: Looking at your numbers after the Day 23 water change the ammonia drops to zero for two days even though you add ammonia twice on day 24 and then again on 26.

My worry is that your water conditioner may have removed ammonia which deprives our little friends of food and causes a die off. If that's the case you may have started your cycle again.

Also you mention you didn't seed your tank. I understand your LFS may not inspire confidence but even two or three plants would be a source of bacteria (in the roots).

The reason I'm making a big deal about your cycle is that I wouldn't worry too much about the pH until the cycle is done. Unless your pH and or KH crash - Ph suddenly below 6.0 or 5.5 as the bacterial will still grow well in a pH above 6.0. In that case I'd pay serious attention. But if you're doing pH tests along with the others every day this shouldn't sneak up on you. Right now your pH is at 6.8 - up from 6.0 a few days ago ... I don't think you need to be too worried about it presently.

Also I don't do a water change until your tank is fully cycled as there is no need because there is no fish.

I agree with Slappy - adding limestone is an great way to buffer your pH but it's your call and there are some fine buffers out there.
 
Last edited:

rajseth

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Feb 6, 2007
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I just finished doing a fishless, and towards the end, it behaved like your tank. After day 20, your nitrites started crashing, but I am surprised they did not go to 0. Additionally, while you have nitrites, I dont think your nitrates reading is meaningful - since I believe the test kits convert nitrates to nitrites and then measure, so nitrites may mess with nitrates reading.

I felt the same, that low pH was stalling my cycle. I got impatient and did a full water change - redosed with ammonia and felt the cycle development got jump-started - apply extra care to dechlorinate and then match temp within a few degrees. It is possible that was unnecessary - but when things are stalled, it felt good to be 'doing something'.

likely, if you just keep your ammonia between 1 & 5 ppm, that everything will just proceed anyway:)
 
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