Yellow lab aggression...

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90galfresh

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Jul 12, 2006
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Hi, I've done some searches, but didn't really turn anything up. I have a 55gal (4') tank with the following:
3x L. Caeruleus
3x M. Johanni,
2x M. Auratus,
2x Protomelas Steveni (Taiwan)

I have had all for roughly 6 1/2 months, and are currently 2"-2.5" in length. I lost 1 Auratus and 1 Seveni early on, but no deaths within the past 5 months. When I got them, I would guess they were 1 - 1.5" (from memory).

The labs have been chasing a lot, and the largest one appears to have established his dominance. The problem is that the other two are relegated to the corners of the aquarium, perpetually hiding. Any time they come out, the dominant one chases and nips them back into the corner. One of the labs, in particular, has a pretty nipped tail. The dominant lab also tends to nip / chase some of the other fish, too - even the johannis and Auratus. It seems strange to me - to have a yellow lab run a tank full of more aggressive cichlids...

So, what do I do? I've tried reorganizing the rocks and (fake) plants to give more hiding spots, but the result is usually the same: chasing, nipping, and hiding. Would adding more yellow labs or other fish help the situation? I'm not concerned about overstocking, as I have an XP3 and a penguin 350 both on this tank.

If more fish is the answer, what should I shoot for - how many / what kinds?

Thanks!
 
Coler

Coler

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Jan 30, 2007
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I'm not going to be that much help - newbie - but what's your male female ratio for each species ? I believe that if you are keeping more than one male with insufficient 'harem' (lol love that description) you are likely to end up with a hyper-dominant male who will beat the head off the other males of his species.

...I am over-reaching my competence here but you seem understocked for that tank as well which may be contributing to the aggression issues. The dominant males seem to me to be claiming territories which are too large in consequence of not having to watch their backs a bit.

I am definitely not going to advise on further stocking though :) I wouldn't have much of a clue. Hope someone else can though.

edit : if I'm completely wrong at least I bumped the thread for ya :)
 
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kay-bee

kay-bee

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Sep 14, 2005
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You've probably got multiple (or all) male yellow labs (despite being characterized as 'mildly aggressive' males labs can be surpringly aggressive against other male labs at times; also some fish have more 'ambition' than others which may explain why your lab is currently dominanting 'more aggressive' species).

You could had 4-6 more yellow labs (or 3-4 verified females). If anything, it'll help spread the aggression and the labs currently regulated to the top corners will be given some slack.
 
mee-mee

mee-mee

my baby...RUSTY
Mar 2, 2007
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MN..state bird:: mosquito
kay-bee said:
You've probably got multiple (or all) male yellow labs (despite being characterized as 'mildly aggressive' males labs can be surpringly aggressive against other male labs at times; also some fish have more 'ambition' than others which may explain why your lab is currently dominanting 'more aggressive' species).

You could had 4-6 more yellow labs (or 3-4 verified females). If anything, it'll help spread the aggression and the labs currently regulated to the top corners will be given some slack.
Click to expand...
Kay-bee is right. You need to have more than 2 females for a single male lab. And the aggression would subside. So if you have 1 male and 2 females, try and get 2 more females. But if you have 3 males, you would need lots of females. Hopefully that isn't the case for you. :dance2:So yes, is the answer to your question: you need to get some more labs to balance out the ratio m1tof3-5. Are all of your labs male? If we know then we can answer the ? better. Males have black stripes on the tips of their dorsal, anal, and pelvic fins to where females will have none or a touch of charcoal on the fins.
 
A

Aislinn

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Apr 8, 2007
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Do you know the sexes of the labs? If there's one male and two females, my first guess would be that the male is ready to breed and the females are not. It would be better if there were more females, especially since there's actual fin nipping going on. This dilutes the aggression and helps keep any one female from being bothered too much.

If there's more than one male, you either need to remove all other males or add a sufficient number of females. It's best to have a male:female ratio of 1:3 at minimum. You will also want to ensure you meet this ratio for your auratus before they mature, as the problems you're facing now will pale in comparison to what the auratus can dish out.

Coler is correct in that your tank is understocked for mbuna. Crowding them a bit can take the focus off any particular individuals. It also helps to try to make sure you have more rocky caves or nooks & crannies than you have fish. It gives the fish a chance to find a spot where aggressors can't see them, and having more than enough territories to go around will lower their stress levels and should help ease the aggression a bit.

As far as stocking recommendations, I think you should increase the numbers of your current fish until you have at least the minimum male:female ratios.

If adding additional types, since you have auratus in the tank, I would recommend you stay in the neighbourhood of the more aggressive mbuna - fish that can hold their own against the auratus. Demasoni or kenyi would be good, but DO NOT GET BOTH. There's too much of a resemblance between demasoni and female kenyi, and the kenyi will be harassed to no end.

Bumblebees are aggressive enough, but you could run into problems with their colouring being too similar to the auratus, even though their markings are different. I don't have auratus, so I can't tell you for sure. Zebras would probably be okay; mine do fine in my tank. As I said, though, I don't have auratus.

Good luck! Keep us updated!
 
9

90galfresh

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Jul 12, 2006
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mee-mee said:
Are all of your labs male? If we know then we can answer the ? better. Males have black stripes on the tips of their dorsal, anal, and pelvic fins to where females will have none or a touch of charcoal on the fins.
Click to expand...
From memory, there is one yellow lab that has very distinct black stripes as described (the aggressor in this case). The others either have none or it is VERY light in color. I will verify and get some more (female) labs.


Aislinn said:
Demasoni or kenyi would be good, but DO NOT GET BOTH. There's too much of a resemblance between demasoni and female kenyi, and the kenyi will be harassed to no end.
Click to expand...
That's good to know - I didn't know how the Demasoni would get along with the Johanni I already have. I think Demasoni are gorgeous, but I read they are among the most aggressive, especially toward other blue / black fish. I will probably build the numbers of the Johanni and Auratus in the near future, focusing on m/f ratio. The fish store didn't mention this as I was picking them out! (I know, I know, I should have done my own research).

Thanks everyone who has commented - and please continue. I will keep this thread updated as we hopefully resolve this issue.
 
GirlieGirl8521

GirlieGirl8521

Planted Tank Collector
Dec 21, 2006
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mee-mee said:
Males have black stripes on the tips of their dorsal, anal, and pelvic fins to where females will have none or a touch of charcoal on the fins.
Click to expand...
Thats not a sure way to sex Yellow Labs, as sometimes males won't have all the black and sometimes females can resemble a "male". The only way to be sure is to vent them. ;)

I'd add 4-6 more Labs, because chances are you'll end up adding atleast a few more females.
 
9

90galfresh

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Jul 12, 2006
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Just a quick update: Picked up two more female labs yesterday, it seems to have helped - at least the aggression has spread out. Still looking to add a few more fish, but it was slim pickings yesterday at the LFS
 
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