Hybrid/Not a Hybrid (Cichlids)

**ChilDawg** · 05-12-2003, 10:44 PM

Can we pin this to alleviate further confusion?

Hybrids:
Red Texas
Blood Parrot
Flower Horn/Lou Han
Jellybean Cichlid
many CB Angels, Discus, and Oscars

Not Hybrids:
Blue Dempsey

(More as more rumors come to the fore.)

**Z Man** · 05-13-2003, 12:52 AM

ChilDawg, just as a question, what does CB mean when speaking of Angels, Discus & Oscars?

**Tightdog1** · 05-13-2003, 1:19 AM

i think what ChilDawg mean by CB is Captive Bred, like slevtive breeding to get certain traits like sail-fin, albino, etc...

**Z Man** · 05-13-2003, 1:31 AM

Tightdog1, Thanks for your thoughts but it could also be Cross Bred. In any case neither is considered a hybrid as long as the Genus and Species of the fish are the same. So I will say that for discussion only that swordtails only found in the wild as Xiphophorus helleri are Green Swordtails and thus all other color morph swordtails found in stores are hybrids? I think not.

**ChilDawg** · 05-13-2003, 8:24 AM

CB means Captive Bred.
I said that many of the CB Angels, Discus, and Oscars are hybrids, which is true. I didn't say all, but there needs to be some serious genetic research on the lines of those three before we can determine which CBs are hybrids and which aren't.

**Rare Cichlids** · 05-13-2003, 8:38 AM

Originally posted by Z Man
Tightdog1, Thanks for your thoughts but it could also be Cross Bred. In any case neither is considered a hybrid as long as the Genus and Species of the fish are the same. So I will say that for discussion only that swordtails only found in the wild as Xiphophorus helleri are Green Swordtails and thus all other color morph swordtails found in stores are hybrids? I think not.

Your post makes no sense. When one species crosses with another, regardless of whether or not they are in the same genus, the result is a hybrid. There are several closely related species of Discus, Angels and Oscars. And those similar species have hybridized, creating hybrids.

Swordtails have often been mixed with Platies. Hybrid.

**ChilDawg** · 05-13-2003, 8:39 AM

I was waiting for Rex on this one: a portion of CB Red Devils/Midases are hybrid--am I right on this?

**inxs** · 05-13-2003, 9:27 AM

rare cichlids - I think Z-man means that if both the species and genus are the same it will not become a hybrid even if you are breeding for colorform or finshape. It has to be a cross of 2 different species.

CD - I thought parrots and jellybeans were the same?

I feel that is has gotten to the point where it is ridiculous and something needs to be done.

Species need to be labled as such and hybrids as hybrids.

Dogs, cats and domestic farm animals have been hybridized as have plants and flowers. I don't see it ending nor do I see anyone banning it or putting an end to it.

However it may be high time to split the forum up for discussing species and a separate topic for discussing hybrids.

To most newcomers to the hobby who go to the mega petstore and buy a 10g tank with some fish for their kids , pretty fish like bettas (linebred and mutated) goldfish(just look at some of the monstrosities and tell me where they occur naturally), jellybean parrots, colored glassfish, any veiltail/fin fish etc... will seem appealing and the persons won't know and doesn't care about pure bred.

I don't see it ending just escalating.

If you want to keep pure species then promote it and educate about them - breed true and share . That way we can ensure the true wild species are preserved.

As far as telling the difference between a discus, angel , red devil or others which may or may not be different species, it will take and expert to figure it out and regular people won't just like I can't look at someones ring and say if it is real or fake.

I do agree that research is good and it should be sorted out but to endlessly discuss it doesn't seem to be leading anywere.

Hybrids are here to stay and rather then trying to stop it I feel that proper labeling of fish, promoting good sources like "Tangled up in Cichlids" and promoting the true beauty of the species will help keeping things sorted out.

My feeling is that there are some really nicelooking hybrids out there but a large part of cichlidkeeping is behavioral - to see the fish court eachother and raise their young . That part will be lost in hybrids and there is no way of artificially breeding that back into the stock.

**JimG** · 05-13-2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by inxs
CD - I thought parrots and jellybeans were the same?

However it may be high time to split the forum up for discussing species and a separate topic for discussing hybrids.

I agree a separate hybrid forum might be nice. Actually jellybeans result from a further hybridization between a female blood parrot and a male convict (convicts seem to find blood parrots attractive even if some humans don't

). The offspring are usually white and the name comes from the sad common practice of then dying them jellybean colors

Cichlid hybridization has become a topic of interest to me since I started keeping blood parrots and I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone on this forum for being so civil in the threads concerning blood parrots and hybridization. It seems to be a touchy issue for some in the hobby and I appreciate exchanges and debates that stick to facts and remain cordial. (unlike what has occured time and again in another forum I have been frequenting recently whenever someone starts a blood parrot thread).

**Z Man** · 05-13-2003, 11:19 AM

I'm starting to really enjoy this. What I am saying is this: In any fish identification book or on the internet, look up the following. Pterophyllum scalare & find many different color morphs and finnage; Symphysodon aequifasciatus; Xiphophorus helleri and many more I could mention. You will see many different colors of each... that's selective breeding. Not Hybrids. Now if someone could give me the scientific names of Parrot Cichlids (not Hoplarchus psittacus) and Flowerhorn cichlids I will check the photo's out.