protein skimmers and the Berlin Method

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psariandras

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May 18, 2007
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If I use the berlin method of filtration will a protein skimmer be an absolute must(also what brand/make of PS)? Also what is the best mechanical and chemical filtration device(s) for a tank using the berlin system?


Are there rules of thumb about how much live rock and what depth of sand are optimal using the berlin method?

Also how much should the water be changed and at what percentage assuming a tank is using the berlin filtration method at optimal efficency.

I know this question is going to be a variable question but I have to ask it:
as far as effectively supporting a reef tank, and condsidering the amount of necessary maintence and cost, How does the Berlin System of Filtration compare to other sytems? Is it better, worse, more expensive, more time consuming, et cetera. Whats good and what is bad about it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

--psariandras
 

TropicalNorth

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Jun 9, 2006
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It depends on the size of the tank, 20g and under a skimmer isn't essential as the skimmers job can be replaced by weekly 15% to 30% water changes. On larger tanks doing those size water changes is not practical so a skimmer is needed to remove the unwanted organic compounds, and only 5% weekly or 20% monthly water changes are required.

A rough rule of thumb for Live Rock is 1 pound per gallon but that is just a rough guideline, I personally just go with what looks good. Because the live rock is doing pretty much all the biological filtration more is better but not if it is at the expense of water circulation etc.

The berlin method is the most widely used method because it works the best (IMO) and is pretty simple really. Plus you don't need a lot of equipment to keep the tank running well.
 

Mr.Firemouth

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The Berlin Method of filtration is to use the largest skimmer possible and a bare bottom tank with no substrate. No other filters, just recirc pumps.

The pros are that the system is cleaner and that less detritus accumulates.

The cons are this method requires 25% water changes weekly to every 2 weeks to maintain low nitrate levels. Also the bottom of the tank needs to be siphoned of any accumulated debris to prevent it from breaking down to soluble organics.

The best systems have now Incorporated a hybrid of systems.
Many either use the largest skimmer in conjunction with a plenum or a deep sand bed(DSB). These 2 filtration techniques aid in the removal of nitrates.
To further enhance these processes many have added a separate(sometimes third tank) refugium to grow caulerpa in to combat rising phosphate and nitrate levels. Caulerpa is invasive and will grow over corals so it is best to grow it in a separate tank plumbed to the system.

Having owned every system including sulphur denitrifiers and airlift systems, I would recommend the largest skimmer/DSB/refugium method. It would be the easiest. The plenum method is harder to construct but IMO is more efficient long term.
 

BeelzeBob

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Mar 18, 2006
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I concur!!!

usually a hybrid of the most successful implements of each method seems to produce the most wonderful systems.


i really like the DSB in tanks. it seems to add avery natural look to the enviroment.

high flow is fantastic too, especially when the plumming was done with a lot of research and planning.

skimmers are just great.:dance2:
 

psariandras

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May 18, 2007
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continuation of discussion about berlin systems, et cetera

First of all, thank you, TropicalNorth, Mr.Firemouth, and brackishguybob for the advice.

I want to do the extra research and work and set up a refugim - I looked into plenum systems and I would like to incorporate that into my tank as well.

If I set up a plenum/DSB/with the largest PS I can and refugim, would nitrates be controlled where water changes would not be required to be 25% every week to two weeks?

Would it be practical to have such a setup with a 29 gallon as the display tank(with 10 gallon tank(s) housing the equip), or it would be more practical for a 55 gallon(with one 29 housing the equipment)?

In a plenum system it necessary to have a line connected to the sub-sand region of the tank?
 

Subliminal

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I just set up a 29g (well, still setting up, but it's running) recently, based on what i learned in my few months of forced education. ;)

29g

2 powerheads (soon to be either modded maxi's or hydor 2 or even 3s)

Aquafuge (medium...probably 3-4 gallons)

The display has 40 lbs of live sand, minus 3 or 4 scoops for the aquafuge, 30 lbs of rock (which will increase as the 55gallon finished quarantine for ich in...6.5 weeks?
Anyway, I'll probably increase the rock another 10-15 lbs then.

The fuge has chaeto, sand, and will gain some more rock rubble shortly (just have to pick some rocks to destroy out of the display(which will be supplemented by the rock I'll keep from the 55 gallon(which is currently quarantined))).

:) I've never gone that deep inside a sentence before...scary.

Anyway, I'm going to go skimmerless and just have circulation and biology.

Oh, and I bought a used (but with brand new bulbs) Hamilton 24 inch 4x55 PC unit. Pretty darn nice, and the tank is a good deal brighter than the 55 with the 4 foot 54w T5's.

Anyway, good luck with what you do.

The most important thing I learned:

Start with good sand...everything else is after that. ;)
 

Mr.Firemouth

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From what I am reading i would suggest...

1. Use the 55g or a larger tank for the display tank. A120g is an awesome 4 foot tank.
2. If you have room use as large a tank as possible for your sump. If you are setting up the display upstairs and can plumb the sump to the basement then use a 300g tub for sump.
3. If all you have for sump is 29g then use it for equipment only. Match the flow of the skimmer to the flow of the tank return pump. Therefore if the skimmer uses a 900gph pump, use the same 900gph pump for the return. This will match your turn over rate.
4. for added circulation use hydor pumps in tank
5. If possible use an additional tank of 20-30g for a fuge with 3" of fine sugar sand and some chaeto. Run this sump at about 200gph to 400gph back to the main tank.

These are suggestions only. Your individual resources will dictate your final design.
 

psariandras

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May 18, 2007
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electricity regarding the discussed setup

How much electricity does it take to run a setup with 55 gallon display with 29 gallon sump and 20ish gallon refugium - would it be comparable to running, say a small refridgerator, or would the amount of electricity be equivalent to something much larger? I am curious what annual costs for electricity would be.

The costs are different depending on where one is, so for reference: a small refridgerator I bought had instructions that said it would take about $24 a year to run(it was a mini-fridge about 2 1/2 feet tall-I can check the stats if necessary)
 

Mr.Firemouth

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psariandras

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May 18, 2007
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I will use a 29g tank w/ sump. I am going to use a DIY sump(30G) and I might create a refugium- would a 10 gallon be too small?

Would you advise using a PS with this setup?
 
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