Trouble with White Clouds

I set up a quarantine tank and purchased a dozen White Cloud Mountain Minnows. These were the last stock remaining, and may have been in the LFS tank for some time.

After getting them into the tank (using drip equalization of water over several hours into the bag, then releasing), over the next several days I was horrified by the results.

First day, all seemed fine. Schooling fine, fin flaring at each other (dominance? mating game?), etc.

Then, I'd come home from work and find one dead with no obvious damage. The remainder would be fine. pH was 7.5, temp was 78F, all testable parameters were fine.

Go to bed, and next morning, another two dead.

And so on. All the remaining survivors would look healthy, active, normal. Then an unexplained death.

Finally, I was so freaked out that there was some contaminant in my quarantine tank, that I transferred the remaining 6 to my 75G. And there they were fine for several days.

Then one began showing signs of fin clamping, listless behavior, aimlessness. It would stop swimming and its tail would sag. It was not feeding properly.

I admit, I panicked. I dosed with a 1/2 recommended dose of aquarium salt and then a few hours later with a 1/2 dose of Tank Buddies Fungus treatment (all I could get my hands on at that hour).

Next morning, everyone was fine, and its condition has noticeably improved (problem with multiple treatment is...which one worked, or did neither have an impact and it just improved on its own?)

Now, that same one has a look of "permanent scream". It's lower jaw is permanently agape, and looks plain wrong. It doesn't look fungal (no fluffy texture?) but is reddened. The fish still eats voraciously (and can apparently swallow fine). Could it have damaged itself? Or is this related to the earlier event? Side note, maybe no relation, we did have a momentary ant problem in the house, and they were getting on the aquarium. Those tiny black ones, could one have gotten into the water and in the process of being eaten bitten the fish? I'm grasping here.

Any thoughts on the overall White Cloud mortalities? OTHER LFS says that since I eliminated all obvious water problems, and most of the fish would look fine, it was probably an internal infection of some kind (which I have probably now stupidly introduced ot my 75G). Stress of move brought it out?

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

Yeah, that's the main reason I purchased them. I mean, they look good, I could support a fairly large school, and they're supposed to be quite hardy as you said.

Here's some info I found on them:

Temp: 60-75°F (16-24°C)
pH and dH Not critical
Temperament: Very peaceful, must be protected from larger agressive fish

The only place I'm out of range is that my temperature is a bit high. My 75G runs around 80F with no heater used. Just good insulation on the bottom and heat from the lights. Room temp is that room averages 75F. I dunno how I'll get the temp down (I'd like to, I've started leaving the top open hoping evaporation will help, but it seems to "want" to stay at 80F).

Thanks for the note.

The LFS says "We keep the pH where the tapwater puts it, that way we don't have to adjust it after water changes, and pH stability is much more important than any particular pH value that fish prefer." He discouraged me from trying to "tune" pH in my tank to particular fish requirements.

We're on the same water system as the LFS, so it's about the same (7.5 plus or minus 0.1).

I'm religious about checking my ammonia. I check with a "rough range" test every few days, and if I get any reading at all I follow up with a "fine range" test. I'm measuring consistently < 0.1 ppm. NH by itself shouldn't be the issue. Nitrites are also practically zero. Nitrates running around 5 ppm or less. No chlorine (and our water system doesn't use chloramine). GH=7, KH=3.

As far as the temp being too high in and of itself, I'm concerned about that, and you've confirmed it.

I'll have to do something to ventilate the tank. If I lower the AC, the wife and I will freeze (we're acclimated to the warmer clime down here in Houston, for us 72 is freaking cold <grin>). Adding cold water isn't a fix either. My tank will consistently maintain 80F, cold water might temporarily reduce it, but without something continuously cooling it, I doubt I'll get anywhere. I'm in the process of building a suspended hood (hang from ceiling) for a 2x55W CF setup I ordered from AHSupply. That should move the hood off the glass and reduce heat input? (Though the wattage will be quite an increase. Right now I'm running the stock 40W plus and extra smaller hood at 18W.)


Thanks for the input!

I read that while White Clouds are typically cold-water, they can live comfortably in a broad temperature range:

Tanichthys albonubes

Temperature Requirements: 40-85F, best breeding temperature 70F.

-Handbook of Tropical Aquarium Fish, Axelrod/Schulz, pg 334.

So I figured I was well within the safe range for them.

As regards my water system, we're both in the same MUD (Municipal Water District, there are dozens of these mini-systems throughout the Houston area) and the construction around here is all relatively new (<10 years old). I suppose if you had an older system, there would be more variation due to repairs using different materials, leakage, etc?

I talked to the Water Dept. here and the LFS numbers, their numbers, and my numbers on pH are all coming out within 0.2 of 7.5, so I'm pretty comfortable with pH consistency between my LFS and me..though I still am careful about acclimation.

I still agree, though..80F is just too freaking high. I would prefer to run closer to 75 or at most 77F (24-25C).

Hopefully, raised lighting and some ventilation will buy me the few degrees I need.

I suppose I could remove the insulation from the bottom of the tank. The stand top isn't solid, it's a frame. I could remove the insulation and lose some heat that way...but I've got about 3" of gravel and no UGF, so I doubt that will be enough heat loss to get me very far. Worth it?