beginner's blues

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Cantrell55

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Nov 20, 2007
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Well, my husband decided to finally set up our fish tank. He ran off to the store and came back with all the stuff for our 55 tank, as well as three swordtails and a pleco.

One of the swordtails died the first night (we didn't do any pre-cycling at all.) But the other two and the pleco were doing great for about a week. We got really excited and started adding fish. I'm guessing we jumped the gun a little bit ... I'm going to do all the reading I can on fish-cycling, but for now, I'm really worried and wanted to get an opinion right away about what is going on.

We then added 9 zeba danios, and two rainbow sharks. Everyone was still doing great.

Went back to the store a few days later and got two blue Gouramis, and 12 tiger barbs. That's when the trouble started. (This was two days ago.)

First of all, we never floated any of the fish, because my husband insisted they would be fine. I was leery, but somewhat convinced, because the others had done so well. Well, the first night, one of the gouramis started laying on the bottom of the tank. He was still alive, but obviously not healthy.

That gourami swims around every once in awhile as if nothing is wrong, and always swims to the top to eat, but then inevitably winds up back on the bottom of the tank somewhere, usually on his side, looking very dead but still breathing. This is still going on.

THEN - I noticed yesterday that our male swordtail was acting, and looking very strange. He had little air bubbles all over his body, and was spending almost all his time at the top of the water, seemed like he was trying to get air. He was wagging (wagging?) his fins very rapidly, and even when he swam it looked very ... vigorous. I'd not seen him act like this before, and it worried me.

Just a few hours ago, I found him dead. One other note, that might be important, is when we added the gouramis and the tiger barbs - I noticed that both the swordtails, but the male in particular, got extremely passive and started hiding. But we had checked all the compatibility, and they were supposed to be okay...

And the other thing I've noticed is the tiger barbs have started getting really aggresive at times, attacking the blue gourami (the one that is thriving) and also were chasing our surviving female swordtail around and nipping at her too.

Ah, and the last thing i noticed, was that the two blue gouramis were seeming to nip at each other in circles. didn't look like it was very friendly, so I excluded the idea that they were mating ... could we have possibly gotten 2 males, and would they be fighting each other?

The store told us all the fish we got were "fairly peaceful." I'm just really confused, between all the possibilities that could be going on, and we are such newbies, we don't know if its disease, if we just shocked them by not floating them, if we didn't cycle the tank right, if its compatibility, or ratio of barbs to the others, or a combination of all of those!

Help??

:confused:
 

Coler

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Jan 30, 2007
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Hi and Welcome to AC :)

Sorry you're having difficulties.

its pretty much the failure to cycle the tank.

you have options :

1) return fish & fishless cycle (if possible) ; here's a great link http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

2) I don't want to tell you to go get rid of your fish with you just starting out and all, but option 2 is tough; fish cycle.

You need a) a good test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (API pharmaceutical make a great one) and b) a lot of committment.

Here's how it works :

To process waste you need two kinds of nitrosomonas bacteria, one which operates on ammonia and turns it to nitrite and one which works on nitrite and turns it to nitrate. Both will colonise your tank giving time, a food source and oxygen. In a fish cycle, the food source is your fish waste produce.

Ammonia and Nitrite are highly toxic at concentrations over .25 ppm (the reading on the test kit - that's pretty low). So, what you need to do is test the tank say twice daily, and do a water change whenever this is so to bring it back to 0. Be warned this could be twice a day at 50% changes each time.

A fish cycle can take 4 - 6 weeks; this is because you have to change out the bacteria food source (ammonia & nitrite) before it kills the fish, so the bacteria are slower to develop. That can be daily changes or more during that period.

Eventually you hit 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and slowly increasing nitrate. This is a cycled tank, and now you do weakly changes at 25% (subject to stocking) to keep nitrates below 40 ppm (I would shoot for less than 20 ppm).

Other questions you asked - its better to acclimitise slowly. Float the bag, put a cupful of tank water in every 10 minutes for a half hour, siphon out about a third/a half of the water, add a cup ful every 5 minutes or so for another 20 mins is the way I do it.

Compatability right now is the least of your worries - the cycle is most important. Tiger barbs are nippy fish, however 12 is a good number to keep them busy with each other. I think the rainbow sharks can be pretty aggressive - not sure how that will go with the rest of the tank.

Finally, you will also need a good water conditioner that removes chlorine, chloramine and heavy metal. Seachem Prime is great. It also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite so can really help during a cycle, if e.g. you can't get to doing a water change (but only in an emergency - its not a substitute for changes).

Only go with the fish cycle if you are fully committed to the water changing/testing routine - otherwise your fish will die and you will be sad :( which would be a terrible start to the hobby.

Any q's keep them coming - we are all of us glad to help.

edit : last thing; lets try and find out what kind of pleco that is - one kind of 'common' pleco (Pterygoplichthys pardalis) hits a foot and more in length - too much for your tank and best to return him before you get too attached. Another also known as 'common' pleco (Hypostomus punctatus) hits just under a foot. Not sure if that's good in a 55 - lets see what others say. Here's links on each :

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=87

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=88
 

Lupin

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Sep 21, 2006
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Just a few hours ago, I found him dead. One other note, that might be important, is when we added the gouramis and the tiger barbs - I noticed that both the swordtails, but the male in particular, got extremely passive and started hiding. But we had checked all the compatibility, and they were supposed to be okay...
First of all, I believe Coler has given you everything you need to know.:) I will do the compatibility issues for your future reference anyway.:)

Tiger barbs and three-spot gouramis are never compatible. Why? Tiger barbs are habitual fin nippers. They alone can bully and snip fish with long-trailing fins especially ventral fins found among the anabantid species. Your swordtails felt intimidated by the presence of both species. The gouramis you got are particularly full of attitude. They can bully tankmates of similar size or even smaller. A planted tank can easily minimize this. Male swordtails, in particular, will easily be nipped to death by the tiger barbs especially when they sport long tails. If you want to widen your choice of community fish, then you have to avoid the tiger barbs.

And the other thing I've noticed is the tiger barbs have started getting really aggresive at times, attacking the blue gourami (the one that is thriving) and also were chasing our surviving female swordtail around and nipping at her too.
I've explained this in my above post.
Ah, and the last thing i noticed, was that the two blue gouramis were seeming to nip at each other in circles. didn't look like it was very friendly, so I excluded the idea that they were mating ... could we have possibly gotten 2 males, and would they be fighting each other?
We need pictures to determine their sexes. Males should have a pointed tip on their dorsal fin in comparison to the females. They are considered one of the aggressive anabantids.
The store told us all the fish we got were "fairly peaceful." I'm just really confused, between all the possibilities that could be going on, and we are such newbies, we don't know if its disease, if we just shocked them by not floating them, if we didn't cycle the tank right, if its compatibility, or ratio of barbs to the others, or a combination of all of those!
Your store's statement was a general statement. Not all anabantids are "fairly peaceful". Some can bully but this can be easily minimized when the tank is heavily planted with plenty of spaces and hiding places.

The fish must be acclimated properly before introduced to the tank. You can search details of drip acclimation as well for future reference. Test your lfs water and compare it to your own tank water. API liquid test kit is best recommended for accurate results. Avoid test strips as these are generally misleading.

Lastly, :welcome: to AC!
 

Cantrell55

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Nov 20, 2007
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Thank you so much for the responses. I think the barbs are probably what killed our swordtail, then. And the Gouramis are definitely not doing well with the barbs, so we'll have to make a decision I suppose between those two.

One thing I forgot - concerinng the cycling - we did put 2 gallons of our neighbor's tank water into our tank when we first filled it. I guess that was supposed to give us the bacteria that we needed. Would that be enough to start out?
 

vtx-coley

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Jul 15, 2007
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Not much bacteria transfers with the water....almost nothing. If you can get some gravel to add to your tank or used filter media to stuff inside your filter, it would be much better.
 

Coler

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Jan 30, 2007
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No prob.

Re the deaths - I am going to say again that ammonia/nitrite (most likely ammonia at this early stage) is likely the major problem, but you are right to attempt to correct your compatibility issues. Always remember that fish don't read the same books etc. as we do - there's no accounting for individual characteristics.

Re the neighbours tank water - nope. Almost none/miniscule amounts/perhaps none of the beneficial bacteria reside in the water column. They cling to surfaces in the tank; substrate, decoration and especially filter media. Now, it is however great news that your neighbour has a tank if it is cycled and disease free.

Ask him for some filter media, get it into a plastic bag of tank water (to keep the bacteria alive) and get it into your filter. It will greatly speed up your cycle, perhaps completing it within a few short days (bacteria being bacteria multiply exponentially given oxygen and a food source).

If he has sponges ask him to cut a good piece off (he can easily replace with no harm to his tank) and ask him to squeeze out his sponges (if he has sponges) into a bag and then rub yours around in this and add the cut off sponge into your filter.

You should also ask him for some subtrate, put this in some pantyhose/tights (depending on where you're from lol) and get this into your tank as well, again transporting in plastic bag of tank water. This too will colonise your tank with bacteria.

I'm hoping its a cycled tank (the neighbours) - it could be a real get out of jail card for you :)

Remember you need the test kit
 

Cantrell55

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Nov 20, 2007
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Okay, well I will be making a trip to the store today and testing our water. (I'll pick up a test kit while I'm there. :grinyes: )

I don't know what happened to these tiger barbs!!! They were entertaining themselves the first day or so, and now they are just blood thirsty maniacs. Oh well. Anyway ----

I found out that our neighbor's is a 10 gallon tank, and he's "had it a really long time." I'm guessing that means at least a year or so.
 

Star_Rider

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Dec 21, 2005
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you do not need to have filter media nor gravel but simply if the neighbor has a sponge or floss in his/her filter..simply squeeze the media into a plastic bag you will get both bacteria needed to get the cycle started.(bacteria involved in this process are nitrosomas and nitrobacter)
get this immediately to your tank and dump the contents into your filter..if you have a cannister filter then dump the contents in front of the intake to the filter.

you may still see mini cycles using live bacteria.
 

Cantrell55

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Nov 20, 2007
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Okay, we'll go ahead and do that tonight. Question - how long do you think the gouramis can survive being pecked at? The barbs are getting pretty relentless. Can I at least wait until this evening, or should I take care of it now? I feel bad for them. :(
 

andi872

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Nov 12, 2007
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and get a liquid test kit not strips....i waisted money on hard to read strips and the got the liquid kit it is much easyer to read
 
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