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  1. #1
    Not enough tanks, space, or time reptileguy2727's Avatar
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    Nature is not always ideal

    Many people look to nature to inspire their captive care of fish and other animals with the assumption that this is inherently the ideal care for these animals. I feel that nature is indeed a good start and needs to be considered, however I firmly believe that the methods of nature are not the ideal for captive animals.

    There are many things in nature that are indeed VERY hard on the fish. These things include diet, natural disasters, predation, pathogens, and many others. Nature is not a nice place to be for an individual, it is very demanding and functions to weed out as many individuals as possible.

    Predation is a major factor. It functions to weed out slow (physically or mentally), over- or underweight individuals, any individuals with almost any deformity, the young, the old, the weak, the sick, and the noticeable (brightly colored males for example). All of this helps to make a stronger population, but for the individual this is not a good thing. Many of the individuals that become prey before a ripe old age do so because they are sick.

    Illness is a major factor in the success of an individual. What starts as a minor infection can open the individual up to other illnesses. This can end up slowing down and weakening the individual. This makes them very easy prey for predators. Most sick animals end up as prey before the disease itself would have killed them. Even if the animal does not become prey because of the disease or die from it directly, it can still suffer in other ways. The physical damage done by certain diseases can slow them down or cause deformities, both of which make the individual more likely to end up as prey later on.

    Diet is another major issue. We simply cannot simulate the natural diet of most fish. These animals have 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to forage for food. Even if I was doing research in Amazonia on native fishes, had a bunch in some research facility, was working with a native tribe and they went out and gathered food for four hours every day, I still would not be replicating their natural diet. We have no idea that although from stomach content analysis from wild caught individuals we find they eat 30% this, and 40% that, etc. that they are not also occasionally coming across other foods at a much less frequent rate, possibly with vital micronutrients or some other vital part of their diet. In addition, in the wild the foods available change throughout the year and even year to year. During the beginning of the rainy season certain terrestrial animals become a large part of the diet of many if not most fish. The rain literally washes a number of animals and other food items into the waters for the fish to gorge on. In addition to this variability, different foods are available at different parts of the day. This will be more likely to be known from observation and stomach content analysis, but there is still going to be some unknown variability here. Even our ‘natural’ diets are far from it. These diets are usually described as live foods (feeder fish, many types of worms, assorted invertebrates, etc.), frozen foods (beef heart, squid, brine shrimp, etc.), freeze-dried, and even many processed foods are marketed as natural. Some brands toss in things like fresh seafood, kelp, and other similar ingredients. The most common argument is ‘this is the type of stuff they would eat in the wild’. Neon tetras, discus, etc. do not naturally eat kelp and salmon. No fish naturally feasts on beef heart. These food items are no more natural to these fish than the ingredients in the processed foods that so many avoid because they are supposedly so unnatural. Goldfish are not found in the natural waters of Oscars. It is totally unnatural for them to eat goldfish. These foods may be similar, but it is not as natural as many may think they are.

    On top of all of that there is no guarantee that what they eat in the wild is actually the ideal diet. Remember that one thing nature is always doing is trying to take out as many individuals as possible. The diet itself may be minimal for the individuals who are the best foragers and who have the best digestive systems. This means that the individuals who are less than the best may not be getting a good enough diet and this could be contributing to their weak nature, impaired immune system, etc. which can lead to them becoming prey.

    Another major issue is reproduction. There are many styles of reproduction, lots of small eggs, few large eggs, live birth, etc. They all have benefits and consequences. But one thing that all of these have in common is that MANY more offspring are produced than have any chance of surviving. What this means is that the already mentioned issues in addition to many others are doing their best to remove individuals from the population (kill them). Even out of the ones that do make it to maturity not all will reproduce. Out of the ones that do reproduce not all will do so successfully. Success is based on the offspring’s ability to reproduce successfully. For example, convict cichlids can have hundreds of fry per brood. They can have multiple broods in a single year. They can live for many years. This allows for the potential for well over a thousand offspring in a single pair’s life. Breaking even the pair will produce two offspring that will end up successfully reproducing. Two offspring that will replace the two breeding adults is breaking even. Any less is a deficit and any more is surplus and therefore very successful. If we tried to simulate this we would be going through hundreds if not thousands of individuals in order to pick the right ones to breed.

    In the end nature wants VERY few individuals to make it, literally a small fraction of one percent. We on the other hand want a MUCH higher success rate than this. We want every single one of the fish we go out and spend our hard earned money on to make it to adulthood.

    Nature is where they come from. It is what they have adapted to and what has dictated their every evolutionary step. It is a great place to start, especially when little or no other information is available. However, it is not the ideal. It is not the end. When we keep these animals in captivity it is a completely different story. We need to make sure that we do what is best for our animals, even if it completely contradicts what would happen in nature.
    75: Planted fancy goldfish
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance and Pet Care company
    Owner: Web Design companyBriansAquariumCare.com: Lots of Informative Articles on Fish care





  2. #2
    Pterophyllum scalare jm1212's Avatar
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    good info.

    you are right that nature wants to eliminate the "duds" before they can reproduce. Darwin created the theory of "survival of the fittest," which was exactly right. in order for a species to carry on, only the strongest, luckiest, and "smartest" individuals should reproduce.



  3. #3
    The Dancing Banana wataugachicken's Avatar
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    so. . . . i guess you have a lot of time on your hands lately?
    Quote Originally Posted by _Sushi_
    Petstores label common things all wooky, like they picked up a thesaurus, blindfolded the manager, and handed him/her a pin, and opened it up to random pages and VIOLA!! A "scientifical naming device!!"

    Spooky Devil Puncher? Sounds great!! How about $21.99?



  4. #4
    Plants need meat too jpappy789's Avatar
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    LOL, I agree. Though some interesting points
    20 gallon long planted
    My carnivorous plants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rbishop View Post
    I like the movie Goonies...pretty sure it was a historical documentary....



  5. #5
    just another average loser scootrnerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wataugachicken View Post
    so. . . . i guess you have a lot of time on your hands lately?
    good info nonetheless



  6. #6
    Not enough tanks, space, or time reptileguy2727's Avatar
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    These were not from this week, they are from my blog. There are other, more fish informative articles on there too. Check it out.
    75: Planted fancy goldfish
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance and Pet Care company
    Owner: Web Design companyBriansAquariumCare.com: Lots of Informative Articles on Fish care



  7. #7
    Beasts
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    Lots of good, interesting points but there is one idea I definitely disagree with you on. Nature doesn't "want" anything. Nature simply is. No emotions, no desires, no goals. Nature is a set of parameters in which each species, and each individual, must compete in order to survive.
    As aquarists, zookeepers, dog owners, farmers, etc. we provide the optimum conditions for the survival of our individual animals and plants. But if nature behaved the same way the result would be a horribly weak gene pool. Only the existence of nature as a whole contributes meaningfully to the survival of these creatures, including ourselves. Yes, we can provide an environment where survival and reproductive success are much enhanced but the animals we raise are nowhere near as well prepared as those who have survived the natural weaning processes and challenges of a Darwinian existence. Hence the problems of releasing captive raised animals back into the wild. Nature and captivity, two different sets of goals with two different sets of rules.
    Nature is not the ideal for the survival of a particular individual but it is the ideal for the development and survival of species which have to live in a natural environment.
    Beasts



  8. #8
    Not enough tanks, space, or time reptileguy2727's Avatar
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    Yes, you are right. There are no goals or objectives in nature. It should be worded more as 'functions to' and not as wants to.
    75: Planted fancy goldfish
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance and Pet Care company
    Owner: Web Design companyBriansAquariumCare.com: Lots of Informative Articles on Fish care



  9. #9
    Hillbilly MFKer duke33's Avatar
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    Good stuff.



  10. #10
    Pump Paintball! FtwayneFish's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing!
    55gal- planted-community
    10gal-planted- 2 senegalus bichir 11"
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    5gal-heavily planted- ALOT of cherry shrimp
    10gal nano reef-Sum fish, sum corals



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