'Fishy' Cycling with Dr Tim's One and Only

KathleenO · May 21, 2008

I have a 15 gallon tank freshwater tank with 3 female bettas, 4 rosy barbs and 5 cory cats and I just learned a couple of weeks ago what "cycling" actually was. I have had problems with secondary bacterial infections and a few deaths since I started 5 months or so ago.

I heard about Bio-Spira just in time to know it had been discontinued by MarineLand Labs. I found out it's now being sold by the developer himself and is now called One and Only (www.drtimsaquarist.com).

I received a bottle on Friday and per directions I did a water changes to get my NH3 levels to between 2.00-4.00ppm. I had already started a normal cycling period prior to. On the first day I added 45ml One and Only to the tank since the label said minimal treatment was 1ml/gal.

The following morning the NH3 levels had increased to above 10 ml/L and the fish were visibly distressed. Nitrite and Nitrate levels were negligible and tap water pH in this area is 7.6-8.0 (hard water, evident from white deposits being a fact of life).

I followed with an elongated series of gradual water changes & NH3 levels were 1-2ppm. I added more One and Only (30 ml) and had not been feeding the fish much. The rosy barbs started shoaling again.

In addition to the fish, I have an airstone, a sponge filter, plus a Bio-Wheel filter (rated up to 20 gallons) and two small heaters. When I added the One and Only I poured it into the water directly over the sponge filter and on the bio-wheel itself.

I never cycled the tank prior to adding these fish so I was always battling high NH3 levels not realizing I was probably killing off any chance for the cycle to develop by being overly zealous with the water changes/gravel cleaning. I hope I’m doing things correctly at this point.

I know that any NH3 is too much - and I've been doing partial water changes 2-3 times per day - paying particular attention not to disturb the gravel bed too much but trying to dilute the NH3 so I don't lose any more fish. Yesterday (Tuesday) I saw a spike in nitrate and nitrite but it did not happen again today so I added another 10ml of the One and Only. Maybe in the next couple of days this will take care of itself, but for now, I'm concerned.

Has anyone had experience with Bio-Spira or One and Only that has any advice/thoughts? I'm concerned that the water changes are removing or killing off just enough bacteria to slow down the process. I'm trying to find a happy medium to get the cycle going but not destroy my fish (although from what I've read I've already stressed the crap out of them).

I have a few rooted plant clippings in the tank - otherwise it's fabric fake plants, natural rock for the big cave and my gravel is actually small stones (less than 1 cm in diameter and some rounded glass things). Temperature is consistently just below 80 F.

chesterthehero · May 21, 2008

ive found that a lot of those "starters" (though ive never used bio-spira or one and only) are pretty much useless. ive never lost any fish while cycling a tank, but ive always cycled with basically indestructible fish (platies are a great asset for this). the best way to cycle a tank imo is to use used filter media from an established tank. i have a 55 gallon that i started from scratch, and used platies to seed the biological filter. it took probably 3 weeks, but by the end of the third week, no ammonia, no nitrites and no more nitrates than what already existed in my tap water. we had to strip down and restart the 29 gallon and 10 gallon tanks due to pesticide contamination. we used the filter media from the wet/dry filter on the 55 and those tanks established in under 2 weeks. it was unreal. you could watch the ammonia rise first, then the nitrites pick up as the ammonia dropped off, then the nitrites drop. a true cycle. i keep my tanks planted to keep nitrate levels in check.

listen, if your fish make it through the cycling process, you have indestructible fish. and everyone has to learn. its really good to hear that you took the time to learn how to do this and find your own method for making it work for you. some people swear by products that are supposed to jump start the cycling process. me, i like the fishy cycling method.

injunear · May 21, 2008

KathleenO said:
I have a 15 gallon tank freshwater tank with 3 female bettas, 4 rosy barbs and 5 cory cats and I just learned a couple of weeks ago what "cycling" actually was. I have had problems with secondary bacterial infections and a few deaths since I started 5 months or so ago.

I heard about Bio-Spira just in time to know it had been discontinued by MarineLand Labs. I found out it's now being sold by the developer himself and is now called One and Only (www.drtimsaquarist.com).

I received a bottle on Friday and per directions I did a water changes to get my NH3 levels to between 2.00-4.00ppm. I had already started a normal cycling period prior to. On the first day I added 45ml One and Only to the tank since the label said minimal treatment was 1ml/gal.

The following morning the NH3 levels had increased to above 10 ml/L and the fish were visibly distressed. Nitrite and Nitrate levels were negligible and tap water pH in this area is 7.6-8.0 (hard water, evident from white deposits being a fact of life).

I followed with an elongated series of gradual water changes & NH3 levels were 1-2ppm. I added more One and Only (30 ml) and had not been feeding the fish much. The rosy barbs started shoaling again.

In addition to the fish, I have an airstone, a sponge filter, plus a Bio-Wheel filter (rated up to 20 gallons) and two small heaters. When I added the One and Only I poured it into the water directly over the sponge filter and on the bio-wheel itself.

I never cycled the tank prior to adding these fish so I was always battling high NH3 levels not realizing I was probably killing off any chance for the cycle to develop by being overly zealous with the water changes/gravel cleaning. I hope I’m doing things correctly at this point.

I know that any NH3 is too much - and I've been doing partial water changes 2-3 times per day - paying particular attention not to disturb the gravel bed too much but trying to dilute the NH3 so I don't lose any more fish. Yesterday (Tuesday) I saw a spike in nitrate and nitrite but it did not happen again today so I added another 10ml of the One and Only. Maybe in the next couple of days this will take care of itself, but for now, I'm concerned.

Has anyone had experience with Bio-Spira or One and Only that has any advice/thoughts? I'm concerned that the water changes are removing or killing off just enough bacteria to slow down the process. I'm trying to find a happy medium to get the cycle going but not destroy my fish (although from what I've read I've already stressed the crap out of them).

I have a few rooted plant clippings in the tank - otherwise it's fabric fake plants, natural rock for the big cave and my gravel is actually small stones (less than 1 cm in diameter and some rounded glass things). Temperature is consistently just below 80 F.

Umm, you're not supposed to maintain levels as high as 2 ppm when you have fish in the tank.......

You're supposed to add the product to water that has a NH3 level of less than 0.5 ppm (preferrably 0 ppm) when you have fish, and magically the product will not allow an increase (by introducing enough bacteria to facilitate consumption of the NH3) in NH3 expelled by the fish as waste, thereby protecting the fish from "distress"......

I'm not familiar with his new product but that's the way BioSpira was supposed to work.

On the other hand, if you're doing a fishless cycle then adding NH3 to a level of 2~3 ppm is acceptable to kick off the consumption and oxidation of the ammonia.

TKOS · May 21, 2008

Overdoing water changes will not hurt the cycle. The bacteria can onluy grow so fast. 2ppm of ammonia is 2ppm more than the current level of bacteria can consume. Keeping your ammonia level to the minimum registered level on your test kit is more than enough to help bacteria grow. Keeping your fish safe is the most important thing here and water changes are the only thing that is going to work.

Biospira worked fine, assuming it was handled properly. That is part of the problem with the product. Without knowing how it is handled you don't know if you have a good batch until it is too late.

msjinkzd · May 21, 2008

Overdoing water changes will not hurt the cycle. The bacteria can onluy grow so fast. 2ppm of ammonia is 2ppm more than the current level of bacteria can consume. Keeping your ammonia level to the minimum registered level on your test kit is more than enough to help bacteria grow. Keeping your fish safe is the most important thing here and water changes are the only thing that is going to work

I agree, keep the ammonia as low as possible for the safety and health of your fish. The bacteria will develop. Keep feeding sparingly and do as many wc's as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrite low.

Star_Rider · May 21, 2008

bacteria multiply very quickly(relative of course), the V or Karl may have better information.(different bacteria multiply at different rates I'm sure.)

but I have cycled tanks wit live bacteria in as little as 2-3 days.

KathleenO · May 22, 2008

Thanks for all the information.

I do realize 2ppm NH3 is 2ppm higher than it should be - according to an emailed reply I got from Dr Tim's Aquarists it'll take longer to build up enough bacteria but it won't inhibit the bacteria unless it's around 10ppm (good to know).

Nevertheless my main concern was if the water changes were killing off the bacteria (I use a dechlorinator/dechloramide-er) faster than they had time to multiply. I just did a massive water change and it's 0.25-0.5ppm (down from 2-4ppm first thing this morning) and I'll just keep doing this until I see things have caught on cycle-wise.

I've been doing this for what feels like a while, but doing a fishless cycle is not an option for me time-wise right now. I don't have an established tank tucked away that I can put these guys into.

I honestly don't know if "seeding" at this point will speed up the process - I must have started some kind of nutrifying bacterial growth, regardless of the added bacteria (dead or alive) don't you think? No microscopes at my disposal so I'll have to lean on the test tube colors and those of you with experience.

I also am trying to keep the heat a little lower (~75) and added the plants I'd taken out back in.

So currently NH3 is no more than 0.5ppm, nitrites were zero and nitrates were 10 or less. I have a thesis screaming my name so I have to get back to it...thanks again and I'll send in updates

KathleenO · May 22, 2008

Just lost a betta, Very sad - she was one of the first fish I got. I treated her for cotton mouth disease (w/antibiotics) a couple of weeks ago and I thought she was fine. Everyone else appears to be okay.

Coler · May 22, 2008

KathleenO said:
I do realize 2ppm NH3 is 2ppm higher than it should be - according to an emailed reply I got from Dr Tim's Aquarists it'll take longer to build up enough bacteria but it won't inhibit the bacteria unless it's around 10ppm (good to know).

10ppm Nitrite would be horrendously toxic to fish. They would die.

Regarding water change slowing bacterial growth; this is not the concern. Letting ammonia & nitrite get and stay above .25 ppm, i.e. not doing changes, will have serious ill effects on fish.

KathleenO · May 22, 2008

Sometime between last night and now I seem to be shy one cory cat as well..the largest one that was in the tank. I'm wondering if the rosy barbs are doing something to the cats.
So I'm down to two female bettas, 4 cory cats and 4 rosy barbs. WTH


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'Fishy' Cycling with Dr Tim's One and Only

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