PH buffer and alk

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

105man

AC Members
Aug 27, 2003
103
0
0
Visit site
I had used the Seachem PH buffer in setting up my tank and doing the first few water changes, as well as using the 2-part B-ionic calcium buffer system. I then wound up with high alkalinity.

Since then, I have just used the calcium part of the B-Ionic, stopped using the alk part, and also stopped adding Seachem PH buffer for water changes.

My alk has dropped to nearly normal level. Calc is pretty good (almost 400) and PH is a little low (maybe 7.8-8.0).

Any ideas what I should be doing now? I can't tell whether the improved reduced alk level is due to not using the PH buffer or due to not using the alk part of B-Ionic. And is there something other than PH buffer I should do to get the PH to rise....or is everything OK as is?

Thanks.
 

mogurnda

vaguely present
Apr 29, 2003
5,383
0
0
DC
Visit site
I would stop using the Seachem buffer (it's redundant), and just dose the 2 parts of B-Ionic in a ratio that wil get you where you want to be (400-450 Ca and 3.5 to 4 alk (multiply by 2.8 for kH)).
Your Ca is decent, but you don't mention your alkanlinity.

For example:
Ca is where you want it, but alk low, keep adding the same amount of component 2, but increase your dose of component 1.

If everything's in the right range, then adding more buffer will make it too high.

This arcticle explains it much better than I can.

Randy has also written about the relationship between pH and alkalinity here. It's interesting, and points out the complexity of the relationship, but it also points out why it often takes a few days for your tweaks to have their full effects.

When you dose, how often and how much? When do you test?
 

105man

AC Members
Aug 27, 2003
103
0
0
Visit site
Most recent alk test shows about 4.5 meq/l, which is a lot better than the 6 or 7 it had been in past month or two.

I put the B-Ionic in three times per week, and as I said since the alk level was high I stopped using the alk part and just used the calcium part. Also, since the alk level was high, I stopped adding the PH buffer to the water I made for the water changes. I figured it was either or both of those that were causing the high alk.

Does this mean that PH buffers are really pretty useless?...that as long as you use a good salt mix, and do reasonable water changes, the PH will be OK even when starting with tap water
 

mogurnda

vaguely present
Apr 29, 2003
5,383
0
0
DC
Visit site
Does this mean that PH buffers are really pretty useless?...
Not sure about useless, but the salt mix provides all the buffering you need. The only time you want to add anything to your water is when you are dosing to keep your Ca and alk in the right places. If you add a buffer like the SeaChem, it will do exactly what it did to you, raise the alkalinity.

Your Ca and alkalinity sound like they are in a good ballpark. Now you just have to come up with a dosing schedule that keeps them steady.
 

105man

AC Members
Aug 27, 2003
103
0
0
Visit site
Thanks. Is it the salt mix that ensures that PH is right?...or does the live rock, live sand, anything else affect PH also?

I always thought that somehow without a PH additive you would have to be very lucky to have the PH correct. I am glad to hear apparently not!
 

liquafaction

AC Members
Jul 1, 2003
325
0
0
48
Visit site
I would also be interested in knowing what effects PH, besides the general answer "everything". What I would like to really know most of all is what increases PH besides additives. My PH levels rose from 8.2 to between 8.4 and 8.5 in a 5 day period. I have used (but always used) Kent corral excel, and coral vite, this has not seemed to effect it before.
 

mogurnda

vaguely present
Apr 29, 2003
5,383
0
0
DC
Visit site
One point of getting a good salt mix is that it will have buffers that act as reservoirs of alkalinity to keep the pH where it should be. Most use carbonate or bicarbonate plus borate to mimic natural seawater. Using distilled water and placed in an empty tank, the water should theoretically be exactly where you want it. But it's not instantaneous. Carbonate buffers are very sensitive to the level of CO2 in the water, so the pH will stabilize when the water comes to equilibrium with the atmosphere, which can take a while.

So, if your tank is in a room with higher CO2, the pH will tend to be low. Also, most biological processes produce acidic waste products, which will degrade the pH. Photosynthesis uses up CO2 and generates O2, increasing your pH. Because photosynthesis stops at night, the pH will go down in the dark. That's also why it's important to measure the pH at the same time each day. A lot of people (myself included) have macroalgae in a refugium on a reversed light-dark cycle to stabilize the pH.

That's about as much as I can think of. I have no idea, offhand, why your pH has crept up Liquafaction, unless you have boosted your circulation or something.
 

liquafaction

AC Members
Jul 1, 2003
325
0
0
48
Visit site
Liquafaction, unless you have boosted your circulation or something.

I decreased circulatoion. I cut off one pump off to keep from blowing my anemone around, plus I started using those pc lights instead of flouresence.
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store