Ongoing battle with rescued Discus

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shawnhu

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Oct 31, 2008
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Hi everyone,

I wanted to start a new thread from my previous one, since it's no longer 1 HR later, and it's been a while since I've updated.

My previous thread can be found here:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179461

So it's been a little over 2 months since I've aquired these Discus, and I'm continueing to get them to eat and feel at home.

So far, what I'm up against is darting, hiding, crashing, scrapes, white poo, stringy poo, white dots on body, thin forehead, thin tummy, not eating much, ocassional backflips outside the water, and excess mucus at water changes.

The only thing that I've been able to fight back so far is the breathing through one gill symptom.

Here's a few pictures of some of them, followed by some pictures of what I've found in the tank living with them.

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I've also identified Chilodinella in some fish poo aside from the above images. If anyone can ID the others, I'd greatly appreciate it.

So far, the Discus has gone through one treatment of PraziPro(Praziquantel), followed by a treatment of Quick Cure(Formalin, Malachite Green). They are now on Jungle Anti-parasite pellets(metronidazole, praziquantel, levamisole).

Since not all of them are appreciating the hard, dry, tasteless Jungle pellets, I've ordered Prazi, Metro, and Fenbendazole in pure powder form. I plan on making my own medicated foods to get them to eat.

My next course of treatment after the medicated foods, will be treatment in the water. I'll most likely hit the water treatment at the same time as the last day of medicated foods treatment. What I have in my arsenal would be the meds already listed above, and Potassium Permanganate and salt. If anyone have any thoughts on this, I'd be more than happy to listen.

It's my hopes to continue fighting to keep these Discus healthy, and maybe one day have them pair up and breed. I understand that they're not what some may consider breed quality, show quality, and some may even say they are stunted and should be culled. Although I appreciate constructive contributions to the thread, statements similar to the above should be kept to yourself. I'd like to keep this thread as a resource for new and old Discus owners to reference.

Thanks for reading, and your opinions are much appreciated.

Shawn

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wesleydnunder

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Dec 11, 2005
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Mark
I applaud your efforts on behalf of the discus, Shawn. Sounds like you're pursuing a good course of action. Good luck with the treatments. Not sure what salt will do for them, though.

Mark
 

avionics30

San Diego Discus
Nov 18, 2008
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San Diego, CA
www.sandiegodiscus.com
Well, one obvious thing that I can see are those small white worms on your aquarium glass. I'm not usre what your water change schedule is like, but it looks like you may need to increase your water changes a bit. Those are a tell tale sign that you have a build up of waste in your tank.

I would also like to ask what your water perameters are. I assume that you are keeping your temps between 85 and 90. That range is fine for juvies. What is your GH, KH and Ph? Where does your source water come from? Do you age your water? What water conditioner do you use? If you could explain how you perform water changes, that would be helpful. I may have a water issue theory depending on your reply to this post.

Best wishes!
 

prolude006

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Oct 3, 2008
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Take it easy on the meds some of those are overlapping. Keep the temp around 86 to 88 when medicating. I would not use the medicated foods. I would also just use the prazipro and then the jungle anti parasite fizz tabs after the 5 days of prazi dose. Then start changing water everyday for a while without meds in the tank. Your info says you live in NYC, how is the water that you are using, my cousins water is not so great for fish around there! The white worms and planaria are fine but they do show you have a build up of organic matter as Avion stated.
Good luck
 

shawnhu

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Oct 31, 2008
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Well, one obvious thing that I can see are those small white worms on your aquarium glass. I'm not usre what your water change schedule is like, but it looks like you may need to increase your water changes a bit. Those are a tell tale sign that you have a build up of waste in your tank.

I would also like to ask what your water perameters are. I assume that you are keeping your temps between 85 and 90. That range is fine for juvies. What is your GH, KH and Ph? Where does your source water come from? Do you age your water? What water conditioner do you use? If you could explain how you perform water changes, that would be helpful. I may have a water issue theory depending on your reply to this post.

Best wishes!
Water changes are everyday 50% or every other day 80%. Water parameters was last tested some weeks ago, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate 5 with API Master Kit. The temp is at 84 since medicating with Quick Cure required lower temps. I'll be upping that back up to 86-88 shortly. My GH, KH, and pH from the tap is 0-1, 0-1, and 7 respectively. The water is not aged, straight from the tap. I use Prime prior to filling, dosage of 4.6ml for a 46G tank, short a gallon or two, due to lower water line. The way I change water is by using a hose, and a faucet adapter. I place the adapter on the faucet, and fill the hose with water. I place the hose in the tank, and remove the faucet adapter and the siphon starts. I leave the hose in there until desired levels, and disrupt siphon when levels are reached. Usually 50% or 80%. I add 4.6ml of Prime, and fill with tap water, adjusted to the same temp as the tank. During this process, I notice excess mucus coming off the fish, and a lot of air bubbles everywhere, like the water was painted white. I usually leave the lights off during water changes to prevent darting and scrapes and bruises.

I would love to hear your theory.

Thanks for replying.

Take it easy on the meds some of those are overlapping. Keep the temp around 86 to 88 when medicating. I would not use the medicated foods. I would also just use the prazipro and then the jungle anti parasite fizz tabs after the 5 days of prazi dose. Then start changing water everyday for a while without meds in the tank. Your info says you live in NYC, how is the water that you are using, my cousins water is not so great for fish around there! The white worms and planaria are fine but they do show you have a build up of organic matter as Avion stated.
Good luck
What's wrong with the medicated foods? The dosage is pretty low, and should be safe. PraziPro followed by the fizz tabs would just be adding more meds and continueing the Prazi treatment, as the fizz tabs have praziquantel in it as well. At this point, unless it's tapeworms, Prazi won't do much for me. I need to hit them with something more broad than just one internal parasite, as it could be Hex, worms, or Chilodinella.


My water parameters are listed above in my reply to avionics30. It's great for Discus. The worms never there until yesterday. The tank's been running for 2 months. I somehow believe these worms are associated with the Jungle medicated food treatment.


I'll do a filter cleaning this week on the canister to clear out any organics.
 

shawnhu

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Oct 31, 2008
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I applaud your efforts on behalf of the discus, Shawn. Sounds like you're pursuing a good course of action. Good luck with the treatments. Not sure what salt will do for them, though.

Mark
Thanks for your kind words Mark, it's much appreciated. The Salt is primarily to help stimulate slime coat regeneration and prevent bacterial infections. It's also used in this case to fight back Chilodinella.
 

avionics30

San Diego Discus
Nov 18, 2008
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www.sandiegodiscus.com
My GH, KH, and pH from the tap is 0-1, 0-1, and 7 respectively.

As I suspected, your water perameters are VERY low. I am assuming that if you are using an API test kit that you are getting color change on your KH ang GH tests with just one drop of test fluid? Is this correct?

You need to get those perameters up to at least an 8 on the GH and a 4 on the KH. I am surprised that you have a Ph of 7. With a KH of 0-1 degrees, your Ph will be highly unstable. What are your tank perameters if you don't mind me asking. Do they match your tap water? I'm trying to see if there are differences between your tap (fresh water) and your tank (aged water).

Best wishes!
 

Star_Rider

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Dec 21, 2005
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I agree with chad
your kh and gh are at levels i would consider a major concern.

some anti parasite drugs are less effective in some ph ranges

FYI shawn, Prime uses a slime coat stimulator

I have seen my angels on occasion create excess slime after water changes. metro and prazi are often mixed and if they eat the medicated food this is the est delivery method for anti parasite meds(internal).
I believe metro is an anti bacterial that is effective against bacteria and protozoa
praziquantel is effective against many parasities often used as a wormer.

i have never used Levamisole with either metro or prazi.

hang in there. the discus are in good hands
 

shawnhu

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Oct 31, 2008
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As I suspected, your water perameters are VERY low. I am assuming that if you are using an API test kit that you are getting color change on your KH ang GH tests with just one drop of test fluid? Is this correct?

You need to get those perameters up to at least an 8 on the GH and a 4 on the KH. I am surprised that you have a Ph of 7. With a KH of 0-1 degrees, your Ph will be highly unstable. What are your tank perameters if you don't mind me asking. Do they match your tap water? I'm trying to see if there are differences between your tap (fresh water) and your tank (aged water).

Best wishes!
avionics30,

I haven't tested the tank's water since it stabalized. I will recheck it tonight and let you know. The last check was identicle to the tap, we're talking 50%-80% water changes daily/every 2 days, so there's not going to be a difference, if any. I would only expect nitrate to be slightly elevated.

If it's pH you are looking at, I do have one piece of driftwood in there that I've noticed to lower the pH. I was told that Discus prefer soft and acidic waters.
 

shawnhu

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Oct 31, 2008
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I agree with chad
your kh and gh are at levels i would consider a major concern.
Thanks for that info, I didn't think it was an issue. I'll have to recheck to make sure if these are indeed the right results of the test.

Here's a link to 2007's water test results in the city, I hope someone can explain it to me.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate07.pdf

Pages 12-14 is of interest when it comes to the water test.

If my GH and KH are indeed too low, I would need to add calcium for the GH and crushed coral for the KH? My only concern then is water changes afterwards, making it more difficult when doing those 50%, 80% water changes and having the sudden shock.
 
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