Swim Bladder Problems and Fin Rot on Black Moor

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kyryah

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Tenshi, as I have named my black moor, is still having issues. The apparent ich has already disappeared, but he is still not completely level. Whenever he is swimming, he is fine, but when he stops, he goes nose down/tail up. I have yet to see him flip over or anything.

I have fed him some peas, is there anything else I can do for him?

Kristina
 
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kyryah

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WOW, 13 hrs and not a single response?

Kristina
 

Somervell

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You are more experienced than I, but I think what you're doing is the best you can do. Moors are so prone to swimbladder. Doesn't really help that their poor little eyes weigh down the rest of their heads, either. Mine usually recover within 48 with the "don't feed-then give peas" diet. There's always the epson salt thing, too.
 

Kashta

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That tilting when he's motionless is a great thing to notice. Some people miss that and don't realize there's still a problem because they see the fish is swimming around okay. (1) Withhold food completely for 3 full days and keep the water fresh/clean. If this doesn't solve the tilting problem, then (2) feed him mushed up peas (very little) 1 or 2 times per day. The peas act as a laxative, so don't give him anything else at that point. After a week to 10 days I'd start to wonder if the swim bladder problem is going to be a permanent condition (or possibly and internal infection/parasites). Watch closely for any other symptoms.... but don't worry too much or give up. After this, I would (3) alternate a few days without food.. with a few day of peas (only) for another couple of weeks. I've seen it actually take this long for constipation to clear itself up.

If his nose is tilting downward, that means his internal air sac is being pushed in a backward direction.... so the obstruction, inflammation, or lump (tumor) is located in the forward part of his abdomen. Could be that whatever he's been eating has not passed through. Or, certain internal organs (heart, liver, spleen) may be enlarged.

 
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kyryah

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Kris, what have you fed Tenshi so far aside from peas?

A tiny bit of blanched chicory and some spirulina.

Kristina
 

kyryah

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That tilting when he's motionless is a great thing to notice. Some people miss that and don't realize there's still a problem because they see the fish is swimming around okay. (1) Withhold food completely for 3 full days and keep the water fresh/clean. If this doesn't solve the tilting problem, then (2) feed him mushed up peas (very little) 1 or 2 times per day. The peas act as a laxative, so don't give him anything else at that point. After a week to 10 days I'd start to wonder if the swim bladder problem is going to be a permanent condition (or possibly and internal infection/parasites). Watch closely for any other symptoms.... but don't worry too much or give up. After this, I would (3) alternate a few days without food.. with a few day of peas (only) for another couple of weeks. I've seen it actually take this long for constipation to clear itself up.

If his nose is tilting downward, that means his internal air sac is being pushed in a backward direction.... so the obstruction, inflammation, or lump (tumor) is located in the forward part of his abdomen. Could be that whatever he's been eating has not passed through. Or, certain internal organs (heart, liver, spleen) may be enlarged.

Thank you Kashta, that is extremely helpful. I will make sure to vac all the food out tonight and fast him for three full days (not used to not feeding my critters, gonna be hard lol.)

Kristina
 

Kashta

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I know how hard this is, Kristina. We always suffer their illnesses right along with them. Just remember that you're doing this to save his life.

What I expect will happen is the buoyancy problem will diminish within 24-48 hours of fasting. But if it does, continue with this schedule anyway because he needs that time for his body to expell everything that's blocking him up in there. That's what this combination of fasting and straight peas will do for him.

If you wimp out on this and feed him something else or even more peas too soon, then he's just going to get blocked up all over again.

Don't worry at all about the fasting period... they can go a long time without food. When shipping a good sized goldfish to someone, breeders/sellers will withhold food for a couple days to keep them from pooping a lot while they're bagged/boxed during shipment.... which also takes a few days in many cases. He'll be real hungry after 3 days of fasting, but the peas contain good nutrients and the fiber he's going to need.

Hang in there. Be very watchful of anything else that looks unusual.... and let us know how he's doing.
 

kyryah

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What is troubling me the most right now is that he seems to be "resting" a lot on the bottom of the tank. His respiration appears to be good, and he does get up and swim around, but he occasionally lays at the bottom, nose tilted down, tail slightly up.n

Is this normal resting? Most of my fish rest within the water column, rather than at the bottom.

He does appear to have defecated, there is nothing else in the tank that would have produced it.

Other than that, color is good, gill movement is good, alert, and 90% of the time active. Ich spots are gone. He is due for a water change tonight, I will do 25% every day for now unless tests show me I need to do more.


Kristina
 

Kashta

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Yes, this is consistent with the tilting problem.. and with constipation/obstructions. There's something going on inside that's putting pressure on his swim bladder enough to compress it or push it out of position. It's a constant struggle right now for him hold himself horizontally, to maintain position while floating, or to swim upward to reach the surface. They can't stand being out of balance like this, so they'll use the bottom surface or plants/rocks/whatever to hold themselves level. While he's down there looking miserable, he's also getting the rest he needs to stay calm, conserve energy, and not over-exert himself. It's helping him to keep up his strength so he can get healthy again.
 
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