several ongoing problems

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

mellowvision

Seafood Lover
May 17, 2007
5,099
0
0
Brooklyn NY
www.mellowvision.com
Real Name
Bill Brissette
I have a tank that is giving me some problems. I've added a lot of plants from various sources, as well as 9 new microrasbora, over the last month. I was also trying to provide more calcium to the shrimp in this tank, and had been adding bits of wardley's turtles from time to time, but recently switched to a TINY amount of crushed coral, we're talking 8-10 gravel size pieces in the filter compartment. I think this has overdone it a bit, with the GH up to 7º. I do not use CO2, but had been adding small amounts (less than recommended dose) of flourish and flourish excel after water changes. The shrimp seemed to be dying off after each water change, so I stopped dosing ferts for now.

I initially thought I had a rasbora with Ich. I added salt and upped the temp to 86. After a week of no change, I began medicating with Kordon Ich Attach. I am on day 8 of heavy, but not double doses, and am showing no change, except darker, smellier water. Overly paranoid watching has paid off, showing me indications of sickness in 2 or 3 other fish. I'd really love some help sorting this out.

the tank is a 20 gallon tall.
api tests indicate that water conditions are:
ph 7.2
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
KH 3º
GH 7º
temp 82º


problem #1:
female cherry barb, birthed here. about 6 months to a year old, not full size.
her tail is almost always clenched, her head is REALLY tilted to one side, as if she's always looking right, lethargic but not still or slow, more disinterested, and comes to me at the glass every time. You might say she's slightly bloated, but every female cherry barb I've ever owned was a total fat pig. :) she eats, seems to have no problem swimming.
but I see her being chased out by tinier fish. makes me think she has a problem in one gil, maybe she's closing it. internal parasite? fluke worms? I do not see red worms in her feces, which are usually normal, sometimes a bit on the white side.

problem #2:
harlequin rasbora, full grown, had it for well over a year. I thought it had ich, and have been treating for it with Ich Attack... but I'm seeing no change. the spot is rather large, about the size of a micro wafer or shrimp pellet, and is white, but is not shiny, has a much more soft look. I think I may have misdiagnosed. Fungus? This fish acts completely normal, seems unaffected by it. Out of 4 rasbora, this fish is number 3 or 4 in the dominance order, if that is an indication of possible injury or stress.

problem #3:
microrasbora kubotai, a new arrival, it's been in the tank for about 2 weeks. Acts normal, and has no external spots or anything, but in the transparent flesh right below(and to the rear) it's dorsal fin it looks like there is a whitish non transparent pellet or something inside the fish. Eats, acts normal.


thanks in advance
 

Inka4040

O_o
Mar 31, 2008
3,441
1
38
38
Real Name
The Silver Slanket
So, there's no ick then? My cherries totally hid the entire time I was treating with ich attack. I'd discontinue that if its not necessary, change a bunch of water, and run carbon for a day. Continuing with salt treatment and reducing heat should be good for the columnaris, and melafix, which some people bash on, has always shown itself to be a great controller of fungal infections to me. Good luck man.
 

mellowvision

Seafood Lover
May 17, 2007
5,099
0
0
Brooklyn NY
www.mellowvision.com
Real Name
Bill Brissette
thanks for the input guys! I read Inka's before walking into petco, and msj's as I left on the train. lol.

I bought melafix and pimafix with the intention of starting treatment quickly. From what I've read they should be ok with the snails and shrimp, but probably won't treat columnaris, if I have that. In the event that it's fungal and not columnaris, I should see some results pretty quickly. I don't know if this will help with the cherry barbs, but it's possible, re:inka's comment, that the cherry barbs are actually reacting to the Ich Attack... I would love to find out that was the case. I'm going to look into columnaris specific meds too.

My two big questions before treatment are:
1. Is salt ok along with other treatments? I'm assuming yes.
2. How much carbon do I need to run for a day? Can I throw a filter bag full in the back of the tank or do I need it in the filter itself? (I have the intake compartment in the back of the tank, which acts a lot like an overflow.)
 
Last edited:

msjinkzd

AC Members
Feb 11, 2007
18,306
5
89
PA
msjinkzd.com
Real Name
Rachel O'Leary
My two big questions before treatment are:
1. Is salt ok along with other treatments? I'm assuming yes.- yea, should be fine
2. How much carbon do I need to run for a day? Can I throw a filter bag full in the back of the tank or do I need it in the filter itself? (I have the intake compartment in the back of the tank, which acts a lot like an overflow.)
It would have to be in something filter like, if you have an overflow where all the water is pulled through with a certain turnover rate that would be fine as well, but it won't do much if its not in some way made to have the tank water flow through it with a consistent rate.
 

DrNo

Overworked Member...
Jul 9, 2008
2,020
1
0
Extremely unlikely you have (or had) ich. You've blasted the tank with salt, which should have improved any parasitic infection (if present).

Almost certainly bacterial. Upping the temperature while trying to threat for ich has actually worsened the situation; drop temp to lower limits for your specimens and initiate treatment for a presumed bacterial infection.

1) I'm willing to bet money it is not fungal; you're describing bacterial symptoms and there is no indication of prior injury (usually associated with fungal infection). Don't worry about treating fungus at this time.

2) If the photos you looked at suggest it may be columnaris, you need a true antibiotic treatment. This bug is extremely hard to get rid of, and pimafix/melafix may smell nice but have no proven efficiacy for reversing an established bacterial infection. You can use it, but don't expect it to cure the problem.

Start a course of maracyn plus maracyn 2 (use both) and follow the directions precisely. Smaller water changes every 1-2 days will help immensely and allow you to dose the antibiotics immediately after the change. These meds hurt biofilter bacteria so watch parameters. If possible, find Neoplex or Kanaplex antibiotics (both from Seachem) as they are highly effective, broad spectrums that will not affect your biofilter. Big Als sells them online; you will not find them at Petco, Petsmart, etc. Most LFS keep some on hand not for sale, but to treat their own tanks in an emergency (high praise indeed).

You can not initiate these treatments with carbon; I don't think you can wait any longer to initiate treatment, so I'd perform regular water changes to remove the rest of the ich attack from the water column and start the antobiotic regimen.

Re: salt. Several studies have suggested that salt (and interestingly, low pH) help with columnaris recovery for some FW species. Other studies also show that salt may actually inhibit recovery from other bacterial infections due to increased stress placed on a FW specimen + bacterial preferences. Continuing with the salt won't necessarily hurt, but it won't necessarily help either (especially since we can't confirm this is actually columnaris). The only proven treatments you can rely on at this time are:

1) Reducing the temp.
2) Antibiotic(s) course
3) Clean water (increased water change regimen)

The benefits of anything else used is conjecture and subject to wide variability/debate.
 
Last edited:
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store