Ammonia, cycling, Prime question

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Dexter

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Mar 14, 2009
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Southern Cali
Every answer I get seems to leave me with more questions. Am I understanding this correctly?
Ok so when cycling a tank the goal is to get good bacteria to grow and eat up all the ammonia right? But during the time it takes the bacteria to grow the ammonia levels can get pretty high which can be dangerous to the fish so the water should be tested and partial water changes should be done if needed. However, there is also the option of buying an ammonia detoxifying product (Amquel, Ammo-lock, Prime, etc.) which will convert the highly toxic ammonia into ammonium which is significantly less toxic. However, under certain conditions (low Ph and low temperature) the ammonia is always in ammonium form. Now after the addition of an ammonia detoxifying product care should be taken in regards to testing for ammonia and also in reading the results. This is because some tests read total ammonia (ammonia plus ammonium) while others read free ammonia (ammonia only).
Now for my questions:
1.Does the good bacteria eat both the ammonia and ammonium?
2.I do not have a cycled tank and I have been using Prime and when I test with my API liquid test kit it shows my ammonia is going up from .25 to .5 to 1.0. If I am only concerned with watching the ammonia levels to see when the second stage of cycling has started does it matter if I am looking at total ammonia or free ammonia? I mean, both will go up and then go down, and if I am adding Prime then at least some of it will be detoxified right? Or does Prime just cause an altogether false reading?

I took over caring for my friend’s betta because they were doing a bad job, so I am learning as I go. The betta has had fin rot the entire time I have had him (about 4 months) which constantly gets worse and then better and then worse and then better. I treated him with Tetracycline for the fin rot about a month ago and it didn’t seem to make any difference. When I first got him I think I overdid it with the water changes, he was in a 1.5gallon bowl and I changed about 50% a day. Then I moved him to a 5 gallon tank and I just recently got a sponge filter for it. My tap water has chloramines and when I tested it the results were .25ppm ammonia straight from the tap. I was using Tetra Aquasafe at that point but then I was told I should probably use Prime since the water already had that much ammonia. Since I got the filter which was about 7 days ago I have been changing 20% of the water about every 3 days. I am not really sure what to do next? Should I try to cycle the tank even though he has fin rot? If not should I just do frequent water changes? If so, how much and how often? I know the Prime bottle says it will not interfere with the biological filter, but I also know companies lie in order to sell their product, so does anyone have any personal experience with Prime and cycling? Also I read that Prime only temporarily converts ammonia to ammonium, and that it will eventually turn back to ammonia if it is not eaten by the biological filter first. Is that true and if it is does anyone know how long before it converts back and when it does convert back is it safe to just add more Prime? And with the filter I have (Lustar ATI Hydro Sponge Filter 1) it says to squeeze the sponge in old aquarium water whenever I do a water change, should I do that while the tank is cycling, or only after the bacteria have established?
Just in case any of this is relevant:
Temp 78F
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 7.5

P.S. I have decided that I officially hate ammonia!
 

jpappy789

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Feb 18, 2007
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Bacteria will consume either form of ammonia I believe.
Prime can cause a "false reading" as you have pointed out, as the free ammonia will not be as high as what the test shows. However, it is best to keep the total ammonia level at or below .25 ppm when cycling with fish. Whenever it gets over that point you need to do a water change, which means test at least once a day.
It would be much easier to rely on water changes than Prime while cycling with fish. Only add the Prime (other than before a wc) is ammonia levels become too high to deal with in one water change. Cutting back on feeding will help significantly.
It is hard for a fish to fight an infection such as fin rot when under stress. The cycling process is putting a lot of stress on your betta.
You need to clean the sponge in old aquarium water because the chlorine/chloramine in tap water will kill the bacteria, which will start your cycle all over again.
Is there any chance you can get some already established media from a LFS? That would help to seed your bacteria colony.
 

LeahK

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Jul 5, 2007
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And with the filter I have (Lustar ATI Hydro Sponge Filter 1) it says to squeeze the sponge in old aquarium water whenever I do a water change, should I do that while the tank is cycling, or only after the bacteria have established?
You need to clean the sponge in old aquarium water because the chlorine/chloramine in tap water will kill the bacteria, which will start your cycle all over again.
This is true--never clean the media in tap water--but Dexter if you're asking about how frequently you need to clean the media, you don't have to do it every time you do a water change. I clean my filter media maybe once or twice a month, because mine tends to clog up.
You don't lose all the bacteria when you clean the media, but you lose some. So, it'd be fine to skip this while trying to establish your cycle. In a new filter with new media, you'll have a while before things get dirty enough to warrant a cleaning.
 

Dexter

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Mar 14, 2009
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Southern Cali
Is there any chance you can get some already established media from a LFS? That would help to seed your bacteria colony.
I was thinking of trying to do that actually but I read somewhere that it is somewhat risky to do that because fish stores are constantly getting new fish and if one of the fish has a disease or parasite then that could get introduced in my tank and infect my fish. I suppose if I find a good fish store that takes good care of the fish that might be less of a concern. I don't know, do you think it would be worth the risk?

What do you feed?
I have 5 different kinds of food that I alternate so that way he gets some variety. I feed him once when I wake up and once in the middle of the day. If he's getting flakes I put in 5 flakes, if it's pellets I give him 3 pellets, and if he's getting bloodworms then I put in 2 whole ones or if I only scoop out pieces then I try to give him enough pieces to equal two whole worms. The foods are:

1. Tetra BettaMin Tropical Medley (flakes)
2. Tetra Freeze Dried Bloodworms
3. HBH Betta Bites (pellets)
4. HBH Betta ColorBright (flakes)
5. Hikari Betta Bio-Gold (pellets)
 
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