maybe tank mystery solved? diagnosis: aeromonas?

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LeahK

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Maybe a few people around here have seen me complaining about losing 3 otos over the course of the past several months. I now think that perhaps my tank has been suffering from an ongoing infection of aeromonas, a gram-negative bacteria.

Last night I noticed what looked like a blister on the nose of one of my male rosy barbs. I did a small water change and waited to see how things looked in the morning.

When I fed the fish in the morning, the rosy barb did not come out to eat but instead hid in the corner. NOT a good sign, right? The blister on his nose appeared to be bleeding. I started researching online and found this information on aeromonas:

1) It is not necessarily a quick killer; fish may die one by one, over the course of many weeks (this would fit the description of what's been happening to my otos).
2) It causes blisters, which often become bloody open sores (like my rosy barb's nose).
3) Initial symptoms include not eating and sulking in corners (again, like my rosy barb).
4) It likes warm water (my tank is at 82 degrees, due to the summer heat).

I think the evidence indicates my fish may be battling this bacteria. Nitrofurazone was highly recommended by several online sources, a medication which I already have at home in the form of Jungle Labs Fungus Clear. And, I have just enough left to treat my 55 gallon tank once. So, at the risk of harming my filter bacteria, I have decided to treat the entire tank. I'm in the middle of a 40% water change right now, and I'm adding the medication as I fill the tank back up.

If my diagnosis is right, then hopefully I've caught this sore early enough to save the fish. And, if I'm right about this being what was killing my otos, then hopefully I'll be able to clear up what I now think was an ongoing problem.

We'll see..... I'll keep this thread updated. I rarely see aeromonas mentioned around here, although several other sites say that it is a common infection, so maybe this info will help anyone else who might have fish with similar symptoms.
 

mel_20_20

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Very helpful information Leah. I'm subscribing to this thread. Best wishes with your treatment plan.
 

LeahK

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Thanks Melody!

Here's some more of the info asked for in the sticky for this forum:

Tank size - 55 gallons, freshwater, set up for about 20 months
Parameters - 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, around 20 nitrate; using API liquid tests
Temperature - 82 degrees F
Filtration - two Aquaclear 70 HOB's
Inhabitants - see my sig
QT procedures - I QT everything, even plants, for at least 3 weeks. Nothing new has been added to this tank since the otos in March and a large anubias in May.
Water change schedule - I usually do frequent but small water changes. For example, I may do three separate water changes of 15% each in a week. Sometimes I do one large water change of 30% to 40%, once per week.
Feeding schedule - I feed flakes and granules every morning and every other evening; zucchini once per week; occasional freeze-dried bloodworms and shrimp.

Here are some links to sites discussing aeromonas:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Treatment...s-and-Vibrio-in-Aquariums-and-Ponds&id=313776
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Vibrio_Aeromonas.html
http://theaquariumwiki.com/Aeromonas
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Aeromonas
 

mel_20_20

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Good info and great links. Btw, do you think you could drop the temp down on the tank. I know you mentioned that it is the warm weather, not a heater, that has your tank temp up.

Could you aim a fan so that it blows across the surface of the tank. Or maybe you could freeze some water bottles, personal size, and foat them. It would take some work balancing and keeping it stable, floating bottles, refreezing thawed bottles.

I don't know it, that may be just too difficult, but bacteria do like warm water.
 

LeahK

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I totally agree with you--I think cooling the tank might help inhibit the bacterial infection.
But, based on my experiences last summer, cooling this 55g is much more work than might be expected, if you don't invest in a tank chiller (which is several hundreds of dollars).
I've already replaced most of my tank lid with mesh screening, and I have a fan running aimed at the surface. I've also dropped my water level to a half inch below the black trim. This keeps things from going above 82.
In addition, I do sometimes float frozen water bottle in the tank. I have six bottles which I try to keep rotating from the freezer to the tank, when I can. The problem is--they melt within a half hour or so. Even keeping six bottles rotating continuously, I can only get the temp down to about 81.
The only way to really lower the temp significantly is to do a large water change and refill--slowly of course--with cold water. But I never feel comfortable going below 80 in one water change, for fear of stressing the fish.
It's only from about October to March that my tank naturally reaches a steady mid-70's temp. From April to September, it's 82.
To be honest, I don't understand how folks in Hawaii keep goldfish. I mean, how do they get the temp under control without a chiller? If I'd researched my fish better before I bought them, I'd have thought twice about rosy barbs, who are temperate fish and would like to be closer to 70....

Anyway, to get back on topic, the sick barb seems no better but no worse after about 10 hours of medication.
 

LeahK

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After 24 hours of treatment, this morning the blister no longer looks red. I'm hoping this means that the infection is getting under control.
However, the blister is still very prominent, and the fish is still hiding in one spot, and still not eating. He clearly is not feeling like his usual self. I really hope that my diagnosis was correct.... I guess I'll just have to wait and see :(
 

LeahK

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Well, it's been 48 hours, and the blister or tumor is not getting any smaller, although it is no longer inflamed.
I'm beginning to doubt my diagnosis. I do think that the blister/tumor was getting infected, and I do think that the nitrofurazone helped fight the infection. But I'm no longer sure if the tumor itself was caused by a bacterial problem.
I've been reading online, and it looks like lots of stuff can cause tumors, blisters, and sores, including bacteria (aeromonas, columnaris, and tuberculosis), viruses, and even cancer. Some tumors are just skin growths which are harmless. I'd like to think that what my guy has is harmless, but he's still not eating and not moving around much, so clearly he's sick with something more than a benign growth. I just don't know what....
If he continues to go on a hunger strike, I will euthanize him before I let him waste away, but I'm not going to take any drastic action yet. I'll try to get a pic later.
 

LeahK

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Pics of tumor/blister--please help diagnose!

Here are some pics of the barb's nose. Things are not improving. I'm wondering whether I may be putting the other fish in danger by not removing the barb, although the best I can do for QT is a bucket with an airstone.
I'm worried! Any advice is appreciated.



 

mel_20_20

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Geeze Leah, I'm sorry things aren't clearing up. It seems that the anitibiotic helped, somewhat, since you said the redness lessend.

None of the other fish have any symptoms? The other fish that died, did they have any similar lesions?

That looks a lot like some kind of tumor. Tumors are not umcommon in aquarium fish, usually of viral origin or sometimes genetic, from what I've read about tumors in fish.

Cancers are kind of rare, because most fish don't live long enough to develop it, but it does ocurr.

If it's of a viral nature there's nothing you can do except keep parameters pristine to help his immune system Your parameters look really good and you have a good maintenance schedule.

I don't know what to suggest. Is it growing or spreading? It doesn't seem large enough to really interfere with his eating, unless it's causing discomfort.
I wish someone with experience in this kind of lesion would come along with helpful information.

Lymphocystc is a viral illness that causes growths, it's also called cauliflower disease because of the appearance of the growths, but his lesion dose not really look like lymphocystis to me.
 

LeahK

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Thanks Melody - I think you and I are the official Google Queens of AC :thumbsup:
I think I saw that same article on lymphocystis, and what my fish has really does look like the pics. But then several articles on that disease say that it's never been reported as affecting either catfish or the cyprinidae family, to which the barbs belong.
Then, through more googling, I learned about "fish pox" which is a related virus and which DOES affect cyprinids. It makes similar wart-like growths and, like lymphocystis, has no cure.
I would actually be happy to think that the diagnosis is fish pox, because most sites say that it is an aesthetic problem but not life-threatening, and it will usually clear up on its own. But, these sites also say that infected fish should swim and eat normally, whereas my little barb is doing neither.
Maybe it's because it's on his nose like that and he's just uncomfortable. But in my experience, when a fish stops eating, that's a bad sign.

Oh, and to answer your other question, the otos did not show any similar lesions.

Since no one else so far besides you and me seems to be taking a guess at diagnosing this, I emailed some pics to the people at Wet Web Media. Maybe they'll have some answers....
 
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