Is this a tumor or an odd cross or...?

Jennie Beth · Aug 29, 2009

Hi all,
I have a Shubunkin, Indy, who has been living with me since the beginning of June. He came with multiple medical issues--unjuries that led to infections that led to fungus and secondary infections that led to gill covers falling off...all kinds of good stuff.

He has been in the pond again since the middle of July. He has always had a bit of a belly for a shubunkin. The other shub I have is streamlined like the comets, but Indy has a belly. It's gotten a bit bigger as he has grown, but doesn't seem to hinder his movements, feeding, etc.

I know shubs are prone to tumors. If it is one, is there anything to be done, or just let him live his life? If it isn't...what IS it? He almost looks like a long bodied fancy...kind of like you took a comet and stuck the back end of a fat-bodied variety to him.

I though maybe he was a she--I called him a she for the first month I had him:grinno:,- and might be egg bound, but...he has the white dots on his gill plates and beading on his fins like a male, chases the girls like a male...thinking he is a male.

pics The mass is pretty symetrical on either side of his tail,

no scales sticking out that I could see

Some of the others for reference. Gash, my other shubunkin, is very tapered from just behind his eyes to his tail, but Indy has a big 'belly' back there.

Dangerdoll · Aug 29, 2009

at first I was having a hard time seeing where the issue is.... to me, it looks like scarring tissue... like something happened to the end part (after the tail) and he just healed that way. He's a pretty boy!

kyryah · Aug 29, 2009

It looks to me also like possibly scar tissue, but it is hard to tell. He is gorgeous, and at this point, I would probably just keep a close eye on him.

Kristina

Dr. Awkward · Aug 29, 2009

Sorry I don't know what's wrong with your fish. Looks egg-laden to me but I'm not an expert, goldfish fry were always a surprise in our pond. I just had to ask what is that floating plant in your pictures? It's gorgeous.

Jennie Beth · Aug 30, 2009

So, Indy's beer gut is just a beer gut? I'm ok with that

Considering all the injuries he had when I got him, he might well have had previous ones already healed that caused a scar tissue build up.

The 4-leaf clover looking plant is a water clover, 'marsilea mutica'. Got it at a nursery/pond store this spring so I don't know if it will over-winter or not...supposed to, though. Not a floater, it is in a pot...kind of. The pot is three or four feet away, and those leaves are coming from a runner cruising the bottom of the pond...
Jen

Jennie Beth · Aug 30, 2009

A little confused...

After reading the replies about scar tissue, and thinking waaaayyy too much, I am wondering if maybe I didn't understand somewhere along the way...

The red arrows point at the big 'belly' I had a question about. The green are the same areas on the other fish--no bellies. That big ol' belly is scar tissue?! Not understanding.....:help2:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jen

Jennie Beth · Aug 31, 2009

Anyone have any ideas? Info? Anything?

Jen

Lupin · Aug 31, 2009

I wish Flaringshutter is here. She would have diagnosed this much better than I can since I am more into external symptoms than internal. What I am seeing in your photos do not indicate scar tissues to me. There is more to the bulge than that. I believe the other posters were looking at his caudal peduncle more than his tummy which would explain why they thought there was scar tissue involved which I failed to see it myself.

I'll do the best that I can do here.

First of all, tumors are indeed common with goldfish regardless of the variants. We have to rely on luck and consistent maintenance to avoid tumors as such since whether they are benign or cancerous, they become an eyesore and can hinder the fish's ability to live if tumors are located in critical areas such as the gills. It can be caused simply be genetics, poor water conditions or some infectious pathogen that becomes resistant to any meds administered for tumors.

In most cases, when a goldfish carries tumor and as long as it does not spread further or hinder its ability to live, it will carry it until its death. In this case, the tumor may simply be an eyesore and won't become a health threat otherwise the tumor may need to be removed surgically by a fish vet or you could do it if you are careful enough about it. If it seems to reach the point that the goldfish may not be able to live long since the tumor is hindering its ability to live, then euthanasia would be the last resort.

Here's a page for tumor removal surgery. I am not suggesting you to do it nor pointing out Indy has tumors however it is a great online reference in case you need it.
http://thegab.org/Articles/SurgeryTumor.html

Secondly, again I am guessing at the moment since I have no way of knowing what exactly is happening to Indy, it is likely though that Indy may have harbored a cyst inside his abdomen otherwise there would not have been any more explanation why his abdomen is increasing its size as you described earlier. I may be thinking too much on this one however so I hope I am wrong on this since it would be horribly difficult to address that issue unless you have a fish vet in your area.

What do you feed him at the moment, Jennie? Considering Indy is in the pond, obviously the question of asking for frequency of feeding may be moot.

Here's another page for the renal cyst aspiration of Wendylove. You'd need a fish vet assuming this may be what Indy has.
http://thegab.org/Articles/CystAspiration.html

Jennie Beth · Aug 31, 2009

Lupin,
I feed the pond fish once or twice a day, very lightly--as in, three or four pieces per fish, though some are bigger pigs than others. I have tetra pond sticks (came with the fish), which we soak,protein 28%(first ingredients wheat starch, corn flour

)...HBH goldfish sinking pellet food, protein 40% (first ingredients fish meal, shrimp meal

)...and occasional frozen bloodworms. Pond sticks are mostly for the kids' benefit, as they can hand feed them easily. And of course they eat anything they can find in the pond.

So, you would agree his belly shouldn't look like that? I'm not just looking for trouble where there isn't any?

Jen

Lupin · Aug 31, 2009

Pond type variants are not always known to have distended abdomen related to swim bladder disorder however judging from the pond sticks you used, this may be the case. I'd try fasting him for a few days or at least provide him a high fiber diet particularly with peas. See if there will be any changes in the appearance of his abdomen.

I am crossing my fingers that this isn't either of the two that I was guessing earlier. It would suck if Indy got either of the awful conditions. And his belly should not be like that. It is far too distended IMO for a shub.


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Is this a tumor or an odd cross or...?

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