Breather bags with heat packs?

Hi all,

This is my first post but I have not been able to find any good answers to this question. I have a small hatchery (about 900 gallons) and have recently started shipping angels and ABN. I have been using kordon breather bags and have had very good success. With the temps dropping I am not sure when to start adding heat packs to my coolers. I did read the sticky on shipping (very good post btw) and it said not to worry about heat packs until the day time temps are below 40 degrees. I am assuming that means for over night shipments? My typical ship time is 2 days - some are 3 (I have one to NH that will be a 4 day - makes me nervous). Also - what about heat packs and breather bags. From what I can figure out - heat packs need O2 to function properly - meaning that there is less O2 for the breather bag to "inhale" potentially killing the fish by suffocation. Is there a safe way to ship fish in breather bags w/heat packs? I use medical type styro coolers to ship my fish in. They are very sturdy, thick walled coolers that have a lid that seals the cooler shut. They are supposed to be somewhat climate controlled - just not sure if I can use them w/heat packs and breather bags.

I am hoping others have already tried this - I would rather gain wisdom from someone else's experience.

Thanks in advance,

Hey toddnbecka,

Thanks for the insight - I just got finished reading some info on angelsplus on why they don't use breather bags - they imply that heat packs will use up the O2 in a shipping container - potentially harming the fish. They don't carry the breather bags (of course) I wonder what they are basing their assessment on. Is it on fact or what they think? Who knows. I have e-mailed kordon to ask this question also - I will post their response later. I have some feeder guppies in my pond - they will probably become "testers" to see if heat packs w/breather bags are unsafe.

Thanks again,

Hey all,

Thanks for the input and for sharing your experiences - it does give me more confidence in cooler weather shipping, now to get some heat packs. I did hear back from kordon - the maker of breather bags. Thought I would post their comments here for all to read. Bottom line - there shouldn't be a problem w/heat packs and breather bags. Here's their response:

Andy Dixon. Thank you for your compliment on the Kordon Breathing Bags.

While using heat packs that use up oxygen, it should not be a problem
as long as the shipping container is breathable. The container will
then bring in ample oxygen. Also, heat packs are often used for
shipping reptiles and amphibians, that also need oxygen, and are
temperature sensitive as are fish. When the heat packs are packed in
breathable shipping containers such as styrofoam or cardboard, there
is no problem in the reptiles and amphibians having enough
oxygen. And they need more oxygen than fish and aquatic invertebrates do.

Responding to your questions, the best way to use heat packs with
Kordon Breathing Bags is to be sure that they do not touch or come in
contact during shipment with the Breathing Bags. Where they touch,
the heat packs may cut off the exit of carbon dioxide out of the
Breathing Bags, thereby reducing the ability of the Breathing Bags to
receive oxygen.

As stated above, be sure whatever Shipping Container that you use is
sufficiently breathable, such as by being made from styrofoam (even
thick styrofoam works well), cardboard, or other breathable
material. In this way the heat packs should be of real help in
shipping in cold weather. Your use of a medical styro container with
thick walls should be sufficiently breathable, as you indicate on the
basis of your own shipping experiences.

Since the stryofoam container that you are using is well insulated,
the heat packs should be limited to the number needed, so that the
water in the Breathing Bags does not get too hot. Since heat packs
come in different grades as to how long they will heat, and vary in
amount of heat between manufacturers, take this into consideration
when obtaining them, so to the extent possible, they last as long as
your shipping time, and have the right heat intensity. Perhaps the
criticism by others of heat packs is from using the wrong ones, or in
having too many in the shipping container.

It is recommended that at first you have simulated shipments for the
shipping time period that there would be -- in order to see just how
well your fish are doing based on how you are packing them for shipment. /R3

HTH,

Subrosa,

I am with you - I wouldn't want to try and breathe through the side of a styro cooler:thud:but I guess they are more breathable than I thought. The coolers I use even have a lid that is notched and fits very snugly into the top of the cooler - oh well, guess it is OK. When the temps drop some more (and Ken's gets in the longer heat packs) I am going to do some tests. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.