Gourami freaking out! Strange behavior for a while now.

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

davidhh

AC Members
Aug 7, 2008
7
0
0
The very first tank I got around 2 years ago was a 29 gallon tank that I got used. It came with two male blue three-spot gouramis (though they are/were brown) and a platy. Currently, there are a handful of platies, one of the gouramis, 6 serpae tetras and 4 cories the tank.

When I first got the tank, the previous owner had had it and the gouramis for over a year, and I suspect more like 2-3 years. There weren't many hiding spaces in the tank, so the male gouramis learned to live together. These gouramis are hardy. The tank and water was in filthy, horrible shape when I got it! One of them survived columnaris, and I think they both had gill flukes, both well over a year ago.

Once I got the tank, I added a bunch of ornaments and plants (real and fake) and one then two decent sized caves on opposite ends of the tank. Eventually, they each claimed a cave as their own territory. They tended to spend 80-90% of the time in their own caves, only occasionally venturing out for food or whatever. For a little while after they established their territories, they'd to the kissing fight if they'd both ventured out. But they quickly settled down.

Since then, they got pretty lazy, and rarely ventured out of their caves. With the java moss hiding the cave entrance in the front, I often didn't see the one in the left cave for weeks (months?) at a time. Then suddently, he'd appear, and start eating like crazy. Then he'd disappear for weeks again. I often wondered if he was hibernating! ;-) The younger gouramis in my other tank will occasionally disappear for a day at most, but almost always come out to eat. Heck, the other ones come out to beg for food 2/3 of the time when I walk by! Almost never with these guys!

Neither gourami had much interaction of any sort with any of the other fish, other than occaisonally chasing a cory out of their caves.

Like the gouramis in my other tank, they seem to alternate between looking for food when they notice me to quickly hiding when I walk by. These two are much more skittish than the others though, most of the time, at least.

About 4 months ago, give or take, the other gourami started freaking out on a regular basis. He'd swim VERY quickly all over the tank, often hitting the top quite loudly. And I'd definitely hear the water getting sloshed around. This would go on for anywhere from 15 seconds to a minute. Then he'd calm down. Sometimes, he'd repeat it a few minutes later as many as three or four times. Then he'd go back into his cave and wouldn't do it again for a day or two, or even a week.

But then suddenly, he started having a big reaction to whatever was causing his freakouts. It would end with him suddently going limp, often curled up in a "C" formation, and sinking. A few times it looked like he stopped breathing. It reminded me of an epileptic fit. If I tried to hold him up with my hand or net, he'd recover, somewhat slowly.

One day, I didn't see him again. I couldn't find him anywhere. Not in the back or the filter or even outside the tank. it was a mystery. A few days later, when searching some more, I discovered his decaying corpse lodged into a piece of driftwood. The wood had a sort of c-shaped crevace in the area I couldn't see, and he somehow must have lodged himself in there during one of his freakouts and couldn't get out and eventually died.

So, that was the end of it. Or so I thought.

The remaining gourami stayed hidden in his cave most of the time, only popping out every week or so for food or foraging. Everything was back to normal.

Until tonight. He's been coming out of his cave a bit lately. He is starting the same behavior. He's freaked out at least a half dozen times tonight, hitting the cover a few times. I've seen him take at least 5 laps around the tank, run into the walls and caves and other fish. It seems like he doesn't see where he's going, but he did react to my hand once.

Any idea what is happening? I'd be sad if I lost my oldest fish! He's still my favorite. (Don't tell the others!)

Is it just old age? Is he losing his sight and freaking out about it? Sick?

He doesn't seem to have any outward symtoms that I can see. Neither did the other one.

What's weird is that after the freakouts, both of them would swim around like nothing happened. At least at first. Though they were both less skittish about me being around then normal.

In fact, right now, he's swimming around the tank more than he has in months. But calmly now.

The tank has been cycled for years now. My ammonia and nitrite are 0. My nitrate is a bit high right now at 40 or so. Temperature and ph are normal. All of the other fish seem fine, if somewhat skittish when he starts freaking out all over the tank! I'm doing a 30%+/- water change as we speak. The filter is a Marineland Eclipse 170 (with regular filter cartridge changes), with a big air stone and a 250W (I think) heater. There's lots of java moss in the tank, too. I feed the fish a large variety of mostly flake foods, with some freeze-dried bloodworms (the gouramis LOVE em!) and brine shrimp and frozen brine shrimp from time to time, as well.

Thanks for any help you can give!
 

Kivstev

AC Members
Mar 19, 2009
152
0
0
IME this sounds like a parasitic infection of some kind considering the spasms and lethargy.

My first guess would be 'Whirling Disease'. I have no experience with it and do not know if it is even treatable. I do know that it can take months for the symptoms to show once a fish is infected. It is possible the first fish that died had it, and then the other fish 'picked' at it - which is a very common mode of disease/parasite transmission. This is why it is so important to remove sick and especially dead fish ASAP. Tubiflex worms are known to carry this parasite.

My second guess would be a fluke infestation - as severe cases have shown some fish to spasm as you described. There are many remedies for this.

Hopefully others will give you their opinions as I have had no experience with either.
 

davidhh

AC Members
Aug 7, 2008
7
0
0
A few additions:

First off, when I did my water change, I did some tests both before and after adding the water. The original water's pH was actually quite low at around 6. I must have used too much acid buffer last time I did a water change. (Boston's tap water has a VERY high pH!) I raised it a bit at first with neutral regulator and with slightly alkaline water in the water change, and am slowly raising it to normal now.

So, could this be a result of low pH?

I haven't seen him freak out tonight since the water change. But with the first guy, he would not freak out for a few days, then start up again. So, it's hard to say if he's better. When I came home from work tonight (my lights in my fish room are generally off dureing the afternoon and evening, so that my own weird sleep patterns don't mess tham up too much), he was hanging out in the open, and eventually retreated into his cave.

Secondly, I'm not sure I'd call his behavior particularly lethargic. Or more precisely, they've both always been pretty lethargic since I got them. Not really in what seems like a bad way. He only seems a bit lazier than the three younger gouramis in my other tank. Ad he's been staying mostly in his cave for well over a year now. None of my gouramis in either tank ever move particularly quickly, unless they get scared.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
 

davidhh

AC Members
Aug 7, 2008
7
0
0
Well, after three days with no freaking out that I've noticed (though he may have been while I was away, though I do spend several hours in my fish room, since it's my living room and computer room), he just did it again. He swam all over the place doing a good 4-5 laps of the tank, up down and all around, particularly at the top of the tank -- all at top speed. (And he hormally NEVER swins quickly, unless he's scared.) When he stopped, he seemed quite dazed. He didn't even notice when I got close or even really react to my hand in the tank. (Usually he's quite skittish when I come by or move quickly.) He's been staying near the top of the tank since then, which is fairly unusual for him. Now he seems to have retreated to the lower part of the tank.

I've raised the pH to around 6.5-6.5. I've been slowly raising it, so as not to shock any of the fish.

Anyone else have any idea what's causing this behavior?

Can gouramis get "whirling disease"? I know from some google searches that it primarily affects trout and salmon.

If it's flukes, I have some medicines that should help, unless anyone has any better ideas. But I'd rather not medicate the tank until I have some more sure opinions on what it might be. (especially since I have cories in there, who don't take well to many madicines.)

But I'd love some more opinions on what it might be. Thanks!
 

Kivstev

AC Members
Mar 19, 2009
152
0
0
Google 'gourami Myxosporidia' (whirling disease) and you'll find that any tropical aquarium fish can be affected with it. I'm not saying your fish has it, but it's possible.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/whirldisfaqs.htm

Apparently no know cure so... I'd treat for flukes and hope that's what it is.

From what I've read on multiple sites, if the fish has never eaten tubiflex the likelihood of having Myxosporidia is very unlikely.
 

davidhh

AC Members
Aug 7, 2008
7
0
0
Google 'gourami Myxosporidia' (whirling disease) and you'll find that any tropical aquarium fish can be affected with it. I'm not saying your fish has it, but it's possible.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/whirldisfaqs.htm

Apparently no know cure so... I'd treat for flukes and hope that's what it is.

From what I've read on multiple sites, if the fish has never eaten tubiflex the likelihood of having Myxosporidia is very unlikely.
The site you mentioned talked about live tibifex only. Is it possible (or even likely) that he could catch it from freeze-dried tubifex? I do have some of them that I very rarely have fed to my fish.

So far, he doesn't have any of the other symptoms mentioned on that page, luckily. And i haven't really seen any small whirls or swimming upside down. Just in circles all over the tank. And mainly just in circles, because he can't go any further, due to the tank walls!

Any suggestions for the best treatments for flukes? I think both gouramis they did have gill flukes over a year ago, since they were "flashing" a lot back then. But they did stop flashing after several rounds of treatments. None of the other fish in the tank have ever flashed that I've seen. When suggesting medicines, remember that there are also cories in the tank.

Thanks for any and all advice!
 

Kivstev

AC Members
Mar 19, 2009
152
0
0
Myxosoma Parasite

There are many opinions that it can be transmitted by freeze dried tubifex. Supposedly that rotten parasite can withstand lack of oxygen for months as well as freeze drying. It lowers it's metabolism and encases itself it a sort of 'shell'. It's one of the only dangerous parasites that aquarists need to worry about that can withstand freeze drying :irked:

I've read similar accounts (such as yours) where the fish would be fine and the 'zoom' all over the tank until resting on the bottom. Then it would be normal for a good amount of time.

As far as flukes, like I said I have not encountered them and do not feel comfortable recommending a treatment (especially since you have sensitive fish). Hopefully someone here will if you decide to go that route. Good luck.
 

davidhh

AC Members
Aug 7, 2008
7
0
0
An update:

I was kind of aiting for more advice from here before treating the fish for flukes or anything else.

I've seen a lot less of the behavior. But every few days, I'd catch him freaking out again. And then I caught one of my platies "flashing" or scratching his side on ornaments. That's a possible sign of gill flukes.

When it seemed that no more advice was forthcoming here, I decided to dose the tank with Praziquantel. Since then, I haven't seen any flashing from the platies or any freaking out from the gourami.

But he was only doing it once in a while. For a few days, it was becoming quite common, but it slowed down again. So, I'm not sure if he's better or not. I've just given a second dose, since I've read that it's important to give a second dose to get any eggs that have hatched since the first dose.

The tank also has a LOT of java moss. In fact, it's overrunning the tank. I'd wanted to put some of it in one of my newer tanks, but I'm afraid of spreading whatever may have been infecting the gourami to another tank.

Again, any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

And thanks to those who have already tried to give some advice.
 

jrd327

Registered Member
Mar 26, 2015
1
0
0
hello - this is my first time using this site... my gourami just started doing exactly what you have described, and I am concerned for its health! as I read through the forum it looks like you decided to use Praziquantel to treat - can you tell me if this worked?

thank you so much for your time.

John
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store