My clear zebrafish and now clear goldfish

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Lupin

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Sep 21, 2006
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I wasn't able to check this a few hours ago even though I saw this in another forum.:duh:

David, this seems interesting. They haven't published yet any shots of the clear goldfish? I could not find any shots. Do you think they would likely be singletails? I can imagine a clear oranda and I have a problem with my obsession over orandas.:duh: Woud totally sweep me off my feet if there is really a clear oranda but I'll bet the dang price would be steep too if they come out into the market.
 

Ichthius

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Dec 2, 2008
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They'll likely just be common. Part of the usefulness of a research model is the elimination of variables. Fancies are far to variable. I doubt they will be all that pretty. Imagine a pinky matte with a clear dermis. A pink blushing button eyed fish that you can see it's guts... On an ornamental level sounds like a cull. If you could mix some reds or yellows back into the mix it could be interesting but the outcrossing to the commons would take many generations to get back to the fancy form of your choice.
 

XanAvaloni

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Nov 13, 2009
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Absolutely fascinating David, thanks. The extent of my researches among the goldfishes were to bring three babies in from the yard pond early last fall to a bowl on my desk. My interest was to discover when/where/how they changed from baby (gray) color to adult color.

One grew up all gold; one mix gold and black; one almost all black. The founding stock was six (genders unknown) of whom all were gold except one gold and white. After a few years of unrestricted breeding later this black strain had popped up, in fact one year almost the entire crop of juveniles were black. Then a year or two later they had reverted to almost all gold.

In the spring I put them back in the pond having learned two things: Goldfish genetics are a subject beyond my field of study, and they are very enthusiastic poopers. Durn bowl had to be completely dumped and cleaned once a week while the research subjects took a field trip to a bucket.

The notion that color variants have been tracked to specific genetic locations was unknown to me, along with the fact that these fish were of any use in biological research. Now I know where to look.Thanks again. :)
 

Ichthius

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Dec 2, 2008
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I'm not 100% sure this is correct but here goes my understanding/theory on decoloration.

Goldfish are tetraploid. Humans have two sets of genes where as goldfish have 4. So if a human couple has two sets each there are four possible copies to choose from, two from each parent. A pair of goldfish with 4 copies each has a total of 8.

So to over simplify you have 8 chances to get the decoloring gene in the offspring. With decoloring the effect is on or off, no partial, just slowly changing. So if a fish starts to change it will ultimately change fully. This gene actually kills the melanin containing cells called melanophores. I think a similar effect happens and kills the xanthophores which house red/yellow pigments.

I think there are environmental things that can effect the speed at which the decoloring happens but once it is set into place it is total. Fish like this: http://goldfishgarage.blogspot.com/2009/11/large-black-and-gold-common.html are supposed to have some of the late decoloring genetics of the shubunkin but the metalic and decoloring are dominant. I suspect these fish were grown in cold water and had very few copies of the decoloring gene.

If a fish has all four copies of the decoloring gene I suspect they turn very early and visa versa if they only have one copy.

So if you start with orange or white fish the offspring will always eventually turn red and possibly white.

Instead of being the good old punnett square and medals peas goldfish genetics is like playing with a rubics cube.
 

ITHURTZ

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Apr 19, 2007
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I had a dream of this the other night. I was feeding my fish pellets and I could see them going down their throat into the stomach, was cool. Only odd part was that was the only see through on the fish.

I was with fancy goldfish if being see through you could diagnose swim bladder or constipation better haha.
 
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