Fish getting worse! What infection does this guy have?

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

Jakezori

AC Members
Jan 24, 2009
1,000
2
38
Pennsylvania
I'm about 90% sure my silver dollar has velvet and I'm treating it as it does, but I decided it would be best to upload some pics and see what others think. He started out bad and got a little better, and now hes getting worse again... He still won't eat and gets startled easily.

Also, the heater I have in there only lets the water get to about 76 degrees.

If you look close he has several small brownish goldish spots on his body and mouth... he also has a red nose.

DSC01370.JPG DSC01371.JPG
 

Cerianthus

AC Members
Jul 9, 2008
2,148
0
0
I dont think this is common Silver $ which I am so used to seeing locally.
I think I see sharp teeth or is it my imagination?

It is difficult task to reach conclusion or verifying symptoms thru pic, let alone diseases, but I do see rather unusual red/brown streaks on its forhead from one side to possibly to the other side. Is there indentation or open wound above the mouth?
I am assuming implication of its Capillary System.

Provided that this fish was not exposed to UNIDEAL water condition for long time and its q/t water is in check, have you consider medicating with Kanamycin?
DO not mix with other med, just one type of med at a time. I would remove all previous active meds from water via small, frequent water changes and fresh carbon before trying any new med.

When fish displays such possible internal problems, showing blood vessels which is not usually visible, heavy metal based med is the last med, if at all, I would use to treat the fish.
One thing I do know is that when fish are exposed to extreme pH and possibly other factors, unideal to specific pH each specific fish has evolved to, it does affect the fish's gill functions which is respiratory and also excretory functions (ionic exchanges). When these functions are impaired due to inflammed/agitated gill filaments, their blood will be saturated with toxic waste products which can lead to diseases and eventually death.
I read enough threads from numerous forums that when fish displays red gill, all automatically turned to possible ectoparasite as culpit, not realizing that exposure to extreme pH would dispaly similar symtoms.
In such event, ectoparasitic med would do more harm than good and whole thing could ve been resolved by gradually correcting pH to suits specific fish's need.
I dont believe in exact pH either as nothing is in exact pH in nature. I am just saying try to accomodate your fish needs, avoiding extreme.

Please dont tell me fish can adapt. I know of their ability to adapt.
Ive done enough experiments over last forty year as hobbyist and over 20 yrs in industry with 20K+ systems with pretty much daily shipments of f/w & Ss/w fish.

Anyway, I said what I want to say hoping some will listen and minimize the suffering of their fish, not mine.

Is it possible to post some other angle shots? I am curious as to what species?

Unfortunately this is best I can do from pic.
Perhaps someone else sees something I dont see.

Hope all goes well!
 
Last edited:

Jakezori

AC Members
Jan 24, 2009
1,000
2
38
Pennsylvania
Sorry I didn't mention it before... it's a red hook silver dollar. He does have some capillary damage. I feel like I should continue treatment for a little while longer before trying to change as it seems like he has velvet. Do you see the small spots of goldish brown on his body?

Also, if I were to change meds, how much water should I change daily and how long with a little bit of carbon.

FTR, I am doing daily 40% water changes and daily doses of meds.

My Ph is very high (the tap water in my area)... So I suppose I will add some distilled water as a top off.

Here is a pic of the poor guys tail.

DSC01369.JPG
 

Cerianthus

AC Members
Jul 9, 2008
2,148
0
0
Brown spots should be least of your problem. For all I know spots could be due to internal hemmorhaging. Do understand exact pinpointing is impossible task even with fish in front of me. All those visible capillary are not good sign as you probably know.

Like I said, heavy metal based med is not what I would use in this case as it maybe doing more harm than good.

How big is the tank it is being kept?
Is it possible to obtain some peat from garden center and prepare reserve (another small tank, rubbermaid, etc ) with filter and heater? This way you can use this reserve water when doing water changes in q/t and possibly in main displaytank down the road if you choose to.

Is it just this one displaying this symptoms?

Maybe it is the pics, it still does not remind me of Red Hooks, Myleus rubripinnis rubripinnis, especially from second pic (shape of dorsal fin)?

Anyway, I would try using Kanamycin or any med which has mixture of Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone (Unfortunately Spectrogram by Aquatronics is not avail anymore).
Cant find the Mixture? then Kanamycin would do.
Dont mix your own unless you are confident in such procedure.

Stop whatever you are treating with since fish is getting worse according to your diagnosis. Put new carbon after water chagnes and I would always do, not more than 25-30% per wc using straight tap.

Would you believe that by preparing my own tannin as treatment has cured and/or minimized the occurences of disease and even induce/stimulate spawning for some species of Characins from SA.. I guess Blackwater Extract on the market may do the same.
 

Jakezori

AC Members
Jan 24, 2009
1,000
2
38
Pennsylvania
Sounds good. I just got some distilled water and I'm heating it now. It's in a 20 gallon and I'm 100% sure it's a red hook as it has a giant red hook on the bottom of it lol. This is the only one experiencing any sickness atm (the other tank is at about 85 degrees). It is in a 20 gallon and I plan on putting in carbon, distilled water, some peat, and some aquarium salt. I went to petco and I could not find the meds you are talking about.
 

Cerianthus

AC Members
Jul 9, 2008
2,148
0
0
Unfortunately, Aquatronics is no longer in the business of mfring aquatic med. Best and most specific med (Neomycin, ampicillin, penicillin, etc) on the market, imo..

Try Novalek website. Click on Aquavet and product list where you will find Kanamycin Sulfate.

Whatever you are changing water conditions, do so gradually. Sudden changes, even from bad to good, is greatest stress factor on the fish. Thus gradually changes in water chemistry at all times except if toxins are accidentally introduced to tank. Hopefully never.

Hope all goes well.
 

Jakezori

AC Members
Jan 24, 2009
1,000
2
38
Pennsylvania
I changed the water and the ph is about .8 lower now. He seems to be acting alittle better, but unfortunately the red hook in my 90 gallon (my main tank) is now acting crazy! He doesn't have any signs of disease or sickness other than bolting across the tank and ramming into the glass every time I come near him. I am trying to lower the ph in that tank as well, but I fear it may take some time... Should I put him in the qt tank with the other guy or leave him in the tank he is in now. I only have 1 qt tank. =p. I don't want my other fish to get infected.
 

Cerianthus

AC Members
Jul 9, 2008
2,148
0
0
Is it possible to see video of this behavior in main tank? Is it another red hook and if so, how long did you have them? I am bit curious to why they are acting out NOW if you had them at high pH so long time????
If you only had them for short while, I would guess this is due to inability to adapt to such Unideal condition as I have seen so many fish kept in very unideal condition (pH, dKH, dGH) are more likely to be VERY NERVOUS/SKITTISH, reacting to shadows.

But do not rule out other possibilities such as ectoparasitic infestation.

I personally dont worry about NH3/NO2 in fishkeeping among my colleagues as we obtained techniques or observe behavior changes in order to noticed any NH3/NO2 build ups. Very very rare among my colleagues.

When you say pH droppped .8, What is the pH now in Q/T ? How about pH of main tank?

Keep the light off on main tank if fish are jumpy until remedies are found.
 

Jakezori

AC Members
Jan 24, 2009
1,000
2
38
Pennsylvania
Originally when I got them the ph was about 7.6 and then it varied from 8 to 8.8 for about 6 months. The ph in my area is ridiculously high.

I will upload a vid soon. He only gets really bad when the tank light is on or when I'm near him. Should I put him in the 20 gallon with the other one even thought the other one has visible damage and he doesn't?

None of my LFS have the meds u say I need.. Can they hold in until saturday or should I order them overnight?

The ph on the right is the 20 gallon (it used to be 8.8)
The ph on the left is the 90 gallon
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store