completely new to these please help

kelly82 · May 9, 2010

well yesterday i picked up my new tank, 48" long, 20" wide, 28" tall. my husband and i have seen a rock set-up in the LFS which had rockwork full of holes built up the back of the tank, and lots of small fish living in all the holes and swimming about plenty. we are wanting the same kind of set-up for this tank as i think otherwise it will be hard making full use of the height of the tank.

im planning on sitting and silconing pieces of rock together to make say 3 pieces which i can then stand in the back and sides of the tank which will reach almost to the top. in effect i guess i want a rock background with fish living in and around it. the front will stay open for them to swim around. would this work?

im not planning on any plants as ive read that plants dont grow where these fish live, and they would uproot them anyway.

im thinking black gravel with white rock, or a mix of white and brown rock. i can get hold of both these 2 types and i was considering a mix of the 2.
http://i44.tinypic.com/23lnkpc.jpg
http://images.auctionants.com/5-139104.jpg
and the black gravel to hopefully keep the fish a bit darker in colour.

im not sure what lighting to go for, im guessing it wont take long for algae to build up on the rock which im really not looking forward to, so i want to choose my lighting as wisely as possible to try to keep algae to a minimum. any ideas?

i have a fluval fx5 to run on the tank, but should i add say a fluval 4+ to give a bit more water movement? i could have this set down a little in the tank to try to move the water around the rocks a little more, but am not sure how much water movement and current these guys like.

i will cycle this tank using fx5 filter media from my fx5 i have on my goldfish tank, it will be more or less instantly cycled as im just planning on swapping the new fx5 canister for the goldfish one and so ideally il need to be adding some fish as soon as i swap them. the goldfish tank has 3 other filters so it will be fine to re-cycle the new filter media in the new cansiter.

so on to the fish. i honestly have no idea what to get. as ive said, im a complete newbie to this. i want to properly research this before i drop into the deep end. im hoping for something looking a little like this -
http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/images/thumbimg/400/4696_4.jpg
but with a ton more fish. if this is possible.

im looking for lots of colours, and plenty of activity all over the tank. i dont want anything thats going to beat the snot out of other fish in the tank though, but as far as i can tell as long as there are plenty of hidey holes it should be fine. maybe if someone has the time, they could maybe make a stocking list of what i can have in this tank.

also, is it a wise move to add 1 or 2 bristlenose plecs? in a hope of controlling some of the algae.

once stocked, what should i feed these guys? do they all come out of their rock work to eat? sounds like a dumb question i know

once im stocked, il be doing weekly water changes, i usually do 60-80% on my goldfish tank so if its ok il be doing the same on this tank. im planning on removing the rock work each time if i find it difficult to vac down behind it but i may just be able to slide each piece forward and then back into place once ive done it.

sorry for the essay, i hope you guys can help me, im sure there will be plenty more questions to come.

blue2fyre · May 9, 2010

If you want lots of rock, color and activity then I highly suggest mbuna! The downside to these gorgeous fish is they are very aggressive. But with the right planning you can set up a successful tank that has all the elements you want.
Ok for a 4 foot tank I would stick with 4 species, especially considering the width of the tank as well. You might be able to squeeze in a 5th species. SOme great starter mbuna that aren't too aggressive are:
Yellow labs (Labidochromis caeruleus)

Rusties (Iodotropheus sprengerae)

Acei ( Pseudotropheus)

All of these guys should play nicely with each other and should add the color and activity you want.

Other species to consider are
Cynotilapia sp White top hara
Male

Female

Those are actually my pictures. I have found these guys to be active but not too mean when it comes to other fish. The male never beat up on his females and bred many times.

Another option is a large group of Pseudotropheus demasoni. Now the downside to demasoni is they are VERY aggressive, but only with one another. If you stock 12 + of them the aggression is spread out and they don't end up killing each other

There are many MANY other options out there. It just depends on what you like. Usually it's best to go with 1 male per 4 or more females. It's easier to buy more juvis than you need then remove extra males as needed. The yellow labs, rusties, and acei are not very picky about gender ratios. Which is good since they all look alike.
Other word of advice is to do your research firs. Sadly some of the most aggressive mbuna out there are very common and sold to beginners. Avoid, bumble bee cichlid (Pseudotropheus crabro), Kenyi (Pseudotropheus lombardoi), Auratus (Melanochromis aratus) and chipokae (Melanochromis chipokae).

blue2fyre · May 9, 2010

For example my tank is a 80 gallon bowfront.
My stocking is:

Metriaclima msobo
male

female

Maingano (Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos)

Ps acei (this is one of mine)

I'll soon be getting some cynotilapia afra jalo reef
male

Females are brown/gray.

I also have a large school of syno petricola catfish. They fit in great with the mbuna and don't get very big at all

Pittbull · May 9, 2010

The above info from Blue is right on and i couldn't have said it better so follow her advice as for the stock these are lesser aggressive species but be mindful they are Africans and that means they have a level of aggression stick to the 4female and 1male rule but you will have to reevaluate the stock because more than likely you will have to start out with small species and adjust M/F ratio's as they attain size and age 3 to 4 sets of a species..

For example stock list

1. Labidochromis caeruleus - Yellow Lab 1M / 4F
2. Iodotropheus sprengerae - Rusty Cichlid 1M / 4F
3. Cynotilapia sp. "hara"- White top Afra 1M / 4F

Or instead of the Afra you could go 9 to 10 Acei 2M / 8F

I would do 50 to 60% weekly water changes not 80% unless you are experiencing problems with a disease or water condition problem filtration sounds good but they do not like a whole lot of current so be careful with that..

Your tank will in time build up on algae but the above species will graze on it as they tend to need vegetables in their diet. BN plecos are a hit or miss with Mbuna some say they have had their plecos eyes ripped out and as for me i keep BN plecos in all of my tanks no problems you will know when you get the species and their aggressive levels fan out some can be real mean or placid..

As for food a good staple of flake like Omega one or New Life Spectrum flakes will work also a Spirulina flake like HBH super veggie will work and an additive pellet of New Life Spectrum will be good as well 2x daily would be a good plan..

kelly82 · May 9, 2010

:worthy: thank you so much for all your help. really looking forward to getting this set-up. today i sorted the stand out and have added the filter to the tank and filled it, its running with 4 of my goldfish in there for now. i have to wait until i can afford the gravel,silicone and rocks.

those fish are beautiful, the rusties are gorgeous

thanks for your help so far.

kelly82 · May 9, 2010

ok, ive just been looking at info on these fish. im not so keen on the white top hara, mainly due to several reports of them beating up tankmates. i really really like the rusties, i think they are number 1 on my list

so how does this sound for stocking-

1m 4f rusties
1m 4f yellow labs
1m 4f acei
5 syno petricola

are there any with a red colouring? i really dont know how much water the rock work will displace and i dont want to have issues with water quality or aggression so i want to get the stocking just right. im a bit nervous about finding the males from the females at the shop. will have to keep looking up pictures etc. will it be a problem if i end up with different to the 1m 4f in any of these fish?

also, ive seen very small shell dwelling cichlids at the lfs, are these compatible at all?

blue2fyre · May 9, 2010

With my white top haras I never had an issue with them being overly aggressive/ I'm certain individuals vary but that is my experience. I consider them a more mild mbuna, just a step up from the three you have listed.

Your stocking list looks fantastic. In fact I would bump up your numbers even more. I mean you have a 120

The three species you are looking at are not as particular about gender ratios so if you end up with more males they generally will not care. There aren't any red mbuna I can think of. There are red zebras but they are actually orange. I've had no luck at all with red zebras or any zebra for that matter. I had an OB zebra group that worked for a while (OB means they are orange with black spots). The male eventually started killing the females though. Now on the other side there are many people that keep these fish with a lot of success so it really depends.

I think you still have room for another species. You have a lot of space and mbuna do best when overstocked.

Lastly the shell dwellers won't work with the mbuna. Mbuna are best kept with other mbuna with the exception of rift lake catfish.

Pittbull · May 10, 2010

Yeah that would be fine not to do the Hara's but do keep in mind i have seen some Nasty Yellow Labs in my time and almost everyone who has any experience will say Yellow Labs are easy not aggressive species..

kelly82 · May 10, 2010

ok, no shell dwellers, just wondered as my husband likes the way they dart into their little shells if someone goes near the tank, what size tank do they need? i have a spare 20g i may consider for a few if it will work, but it wont be for a while.

so stocking so far sounds good, im getting all excited, and my husband asked as he wandered out the door this morning 'what colour gravel do you want for the new tank, il pick some up when im on my way home from work' :nilly: could have pushed me over with a feather, he really must be looking forward to getting this set-up! first time for everything :rofl:

is my water ok for these guys, its a hard water area, not sure exact readings but my lfs says all water round here is like liquid rock :irked: i hope its ok for them. my p.h is between 7.5-8.0.

right, so if i try to get 1m and say 7f of each would that be ok? and still the 5 catfish. im still in 2 minds about the white top hara, they are a lovely looking fish. i will see how things go, and go see them for myself at the lfs and decide. would 1m 4f of each of the 4 species work? with the 5 catfish.

right, better go, need to euthanise a sick goldfish, bless her shes had a rubbish life, crammed into a 4gallon starter tank, i took her in and shes grown 2" in around 3 months or so in my 180gallon, now shes grown a big lump on her side over night which has spread all her scales, shes been looking ill for a week or more, time to break out the clove oil before she really starts to suffer :cry:

blue2fyre · May 10, 2010

Shell dwellers can be kept in as small as a 10 gallon. They would be very happy in a 20 gallon.

Mbuna really appreciate sand but gravel will work fine too. They tend to rearrange things and love to dig! I keep black sand in my tank and it really brings out their colors.

is my water ok for these guys, its a hard water area, not sure exact readings but my lfs says all water round here is like liquid rock i hope its ok for them. my p.h is between 7.5-8.0.

I actually loled a little at this. The mbuna wil LOVE LOVE LOVE You're hard water.

They thrive in hard water with high Ph so no problem at all.

1male and 7 females will do great. If you want go ahead get the labs, acei and rusties and see how they do. If you want another species then add one, if not just keep those three. It's all in what you want

You're stocking sounds really good.

Finally so sorry to hear about your goldfish


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completely new to these please help

kelly82

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blue2fyre

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Pittbull

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kelly82

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kelly82

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blue2fyre

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Pittbull

ALL BOW DOWN TO THE FIN GODS

kelly82

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blue2fyre

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