Changing 75 gallon over to Reef:Questions

felixpaws · Jun 14, 2010

So, I posted another thread about starting up a 29 gallon nano-reef, but couldn't get the okay from my dad. Now, he said yes to switching my 75 gallon freshwater community tank(angels, a discus, asorted other fish) to a reef tank. I have a 4 bulb T5HO fixture(with digital timer, and individual reflectors), and a 2 bulb T5HO fixture over the tank. I, also, have a 5 stage canister filter, an emporer 400 filter, a marineland submersible heater, glass lids, a blue/black background, and two 250? penguin powerheads, with pre-filter sponges on them. Right now, there is eco-complete planted tank substrate on the bottom, plastic plants, and three big pieces of driftwood, as decoration. I've ordered 3, 40lb. bags of crushed coral, and 2, 40lb. bags of 1mm to 2mm aragonite, for the plenum. Also, I've ordered two protein skimmers rated for 75 gallons each(The 160 gallon rated one was out of stock, but I figure these will fit better, anyway.)I ordered a refractometer, and 2, 200 gallon mix boxes of reef crystals, some kalkwasser, and 3 actinic bulbs, and 3, 1200K bulbs, to replace the plant bulbs I have in there, now. Now(Whew!), my question: Is it possible to have a reef tank, with soft corals, (mushrooms, leathers, zoanthids, etc.), without RO/DI, and with the equipment that I have, now? I'll be honest, the protein skimmers, UV sterilizer, and lights are from Aquatraders.com, and the canister filter is Jebo, off of Ebay. I plan to buy 45lbs. of premium, and 45lbs. of standard live rock from Liveaquaria.com. I, sort of, planned to buy a couple of 1050 evolution koralia's, after I buy the live rock, after I save up a little. I've had salt tanks, before, but back when undergravel filters were still popular, no skimmer, and shop lights(I think they were T8's but can't be sure). I've read a ton of material, online, magazines, books, pamphlets, and feel confident that I know enough to get by, but still need tons of advice. Before I spend thousands of dollars on live stock, and countless headaches, is it even possible? I've been in the hobby for over 20 years, but mostly freshwater. Please, please, please tell me it can be done.

There's no way for RO/DI, my lfs doesn't sell water, distilled water is out of the question. I use well water, and it's hard, and alkaline, PH is high.
Thanks.

fsn77 · Jun 14, 2010

Without knowing much more about your well, it would only be a guess as to whether or not you'll be able to keep corals and/or invertebrates alive. Each well is different, and the quality of the water in a well can fluctuate quite a bit. There's the potential for there to be plenty of things in a well that could limit your success, many of which there are no hobby level test kits for.

It's not stated why RO/DI is not possible, but the hobby style units are very affordable and easy to maintain. It's likely the 2 protein skimmers that were purchased cost more than a RO/DI unit would have, and if it came down to having a protein skimmer or a RO/DI unit, the RO/DI unit wins out easily IMO. There's a good number of tanks that do not use a protein skimmer at all, which is made possible by frequent water changes using a quality water source.

mes1234 · Jun 14, 2010

What I would do is buy a RO/DI or just purely a RO unit off of craigslist. I guarantee tons of people will sell in your area. I use a RO unit, no DI, and my reef looks great now. RO removed like 80% of the bad stuff out of the water which the DI would have removed 100%. But like I said, my tank is doing great and the fish look great. I honestly would just go buy a used RO/DI unit off craigslist for $100 and have it there at your side. Maybe do a trade on craigslist, one of your skimmers for a RO unit.

felixpaws · Jun 15, 2010

RO/DI

Great suggestions, unfortunately the reason I can't use an RO/DI unit, because my father won't allow it. He barely gave me permission to set up the tank, in the first place. We live in a desert, and the waste water is an issue. I've heard all the alternatives for using the waste, but it's a no go. Our area has issues with Nitrates(hence, the plenum. Don't know if it will help, but it's worth a shot.) We have a lot of septic tanks around here, and farming. The water is fairly clean, but, like I wrote, hard, alkaline, high PH(8.6Ph, last time I checked). I begged, for like, a year, before he gave in. I'm afraid RO/DI is out of the question. Are my water conditions too full of minerals for a reef? Besides the water, how is the set up looking? Do I need more light, more powerheads, to alter the filtration(in other words, remove the canister/HOB filter/plenum or alter them somehow?), less live rock, more live rock or any other suggestions? I haven't done salt in a while(7 or 8 years ago), and could use any advice you might want to give. I figured, if I used Kalkwasser it would aid in skimming, and take out a lot of Phosphates in the process. Double the skimmer size, 6 T5HO bulbs over the tank(I plan to buy another 4 bulb unit, at a later date, to replace the two bulb), do a ten gallon water change weekly, lots of live rock, a plenum(btw, built the plenum, today), feed lightly, stock lightly, keep it clean. Sorry for the super long posts, but I figure, the more information people have, the more informed advice they can give. Anyway, any help will be appreciated. Thanks.:thumbsup:

FishPish · Jun 15, 2010

Instead of the Ro water, you could try a 1 stage under the sink or Brita / Pur etc water filter. This will at least eliminate some of the hard contaminants. You can also drink the tap water for yourself and not have to worry about getting sick ever. Otherwise it doesn't make sense that you are not allowed to filter your water in the desert.

As an alternative to water changes, if the tank is not sick, let the water evaporate and just fill it back up as needed. A small tank will evaporate 10% really quickly. No waste should be involved. You shouldn't have to dump water from a healthy 20 gallon or below ever, the evaporation should be in pace.

londonloco · Jun 15, 2010

Because of water waste I never bought a RO/DI unit for my tanks either. I have fairly hard well water also, very high TDS count, had a reef set up for 6 years, my fish and corals thrived just fine, tank was beautiful. Go over to reefcentral, read until you think you know it all, then read some more. I had no problem with any fish, invert or coral. Just start slow, let your tank mature before going wild with purchases of live stock.

timmytimtim · Jun 15, 2010

You should also set up a refugium. They don't have to be anything expensive. My first fuge was a 5 gallon Home Depot bucket. I just drilles two 1" holes in it and used some aquarium silicone to seal around the lines...water in and water returning to the sump. Add some refugium mud and white sand, or live sand, and macro and it will help with the nitrates. You can make a large fuge with a rubbermaid container.

mes1234 · Jun 15, 2010

I would say give it a go man. A lot of people are finicky when it comes to RO/DI units but realistically, you can probably have a reef with your water. You might not get SUPER bright colors or high growth rates, but I do believe you can be successful. Do you have a TDS meter? If so, let us know the number it gives you for your tap.

fsn77 · Jun 15, 2010

felixpaws said:
Are my water conditions too full of minerals for a reef?

There's no real answer for that without having a more detailed lab analysis of your water. It may work fine, it may not work at all, or you may end up somewhere in the middle -- being able to keep only certain species because others just won't survive. Without knowing exactly what's in the well water, setting up a reef tank will be an endeavor of trial and error and have its risks.

felixpaws said:
Besides the water, how is the set up looking? Do I need more light, more powerheads, to alter the filtration(in other words, remove the canister/HOB filter/plenum or alter them somehow?), less live rock, more live rock or any other suggestions?

6 T5HO bulbs on a 75g may turn out to be more than you need for soft corals. 4 may do just fine for the bulk of soft corals, depending on your choice of bulbs and how the corals are placed.

You may find that you'll need 2 additional powerheads, but that'll depend on how your rockwork is set up. The goal is to prevent detritus from settling and building up.

If you're going to have that much rock and sand, there seems to be little need for the canister and HOB filters, unless you plan to use them for chemical media like carbon or phosphate remover. Otherwise, if they are planned to be used as biological filtration, they will require frequent cleaning to remove the detritus that collects within them in order to prevent issues with elevated nitrate levels.

felixpaws said:
I figured, if I used Kalkwasser it would aid in skimming, and take out a lot of Phosphates in the process.

Unless I've not seen something more current, it's only thought that kalk use may bind phosphates as calcium carbonate precipitates, which then can potentially be skimmed out. I would not rely on that process to be a significant form of phosphate export, especially if your well water ends up being a significant source of phosphates.

ToeJam · Jun 15, 2010

Problems I see as I am not such an optimist with well water and farming areas. I lived in Illinois once. I understand well water and possible contaminants. Those farmers spray a lot of stuff into soil as they alternate from farming to letting it weed over on a season...never know what gets into run off.

Second thing is if you have used copper based treatments in your 75 gallon for the fish....that is not coral safe anymore without a thorough cleaning as copper is stuck to the glass now. There is a way to clean it....i dont have the link.

RO/DI no go...then you must "Consider" to try to get the best skimmer you can, phosphate remover media and phosban reactor, Carbon, and Fuge going.
Not all in that order...or everything listed....just worse case scenario ...

The reason I say this is Phosban to eliminate phosphate, Carbon to remove the toxins leached into the well, Fuge to help keep nutrients lower, and a great skimmer to suck out what it can.

YOu could be just fine with a good skimmer +Fuge....or skimmer only. As the mod said...without a thorough test...you don't know whats in that water its a chance you will be taking on what may happen as you get going.

Be prepared....its going to be a bumpy ride is you get going...but that is why there are places like this forums...to help smooth the ride if we can.:nilly:


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Changing 75 gallon over to Reef:Questions

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