What is this? Fungus? Bacterial? Excess slime?

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

Saje

AC Members
Sep 27, 2009
167
0
0
New York
This is a female betta that I've only had for about 2 weeks. Tonight I noticed this whitish area on the back of her head - she moves so fast that I couldn't tell with the naked eye if it was just a loss of color in that area, fungus, or something more sinister. So I took pictures. Looks like it's not a simply loss of color I don't think. What does it look like to you? Fungus? Something else? Or do I have to worry here about columnaris, or worse, fish TB? Gave you 3 pictures - the middle one is a close up of the first pic.

Some info: She's in a 5 gallon (alone). She is eating really well currently (eats a staple of Hikari Bio Betta Gold but also gets brine shrimp, krill, bloodowmrs, and peas occasionally). She was really active - always at the front of the tank. She's still active, but isn't always at the front anymore - sometimes I have to look for her if you kwim. Then all of a sudden she'll see me and swim right out from wherever it is she was. I used mature media from a well established tank to seed her new filter (which is a Hydro II sponge filter powered by a Whisper air pump) but it didn't work "immediately" like I'm used to and I basically ended up with a mini-cycle - she had about 4-5 days of ammonia readings - never higher than about 0.75 - usually more around .50. I did 50% water changes each time she was over .25 (usually once a day). Ammonia is now gone (to 0) and nitrites are ever so slightly above 0 (no where near the 0.25 color - I'd guess they are like 0.10). Tests, btw, are API liquid. pH is somewhere around 7.6, water is moderately hard. She has a heater, and the water is currently 79. There are no live plants - just silk.

Here are the 3 pics:




 

Ianne

I lieks feesh
May 22, 2009
328
0
0
Colorado
an old injury maybe? i only say that cuz ive only seen fungus on a molly and it looks more like a film or tufts covering it and the pic just looks like faded scales to me
Someone else will chime in :)
 

GuppyGirl1230

Snails, Guppies and Corys, OH MY!!!
Jul 14, 2010
1,015
0
0
Westminster, Colorado
Real Name
Maribeth
I think it may be an old injury. But if you have had her for 2 weeks and not noticed it, I would watch it very closely, if it gets any whiter/bigger/fuzzier treat for cotton-Maracyn-Oxy is the best cotton killer I have found. But I think it may just be an old injury, just watch it closely! BTW, nice fish, gorgeous!
 

phreeflow

AC Members
Mar 28, 2009
111
0
16
Yeah, it looks like a wound. Just keep up on the water changes to maintain good conditions and the chances of a secondary infection is slight. If she's healthy and eating well, it'll heal on its own. Gorgeous fish!
 

Saje

AC Members
Sep 27, 2009
167
0
0
New York
Thank you guys so much. It looked like faded scales to me too, except for that closeup, which looked more like something on her. It's not something that was there before for sure - unless her head has just darkened up enough for me to see it or something? So, I'll just keep an eye on it - if it gets worse, you're thinking fungus type thing or more columnaris type thing?

Here's a pic of shortly after I first got her - still a wee bit clamped from stress, and still a bit faded - maybe that's why I don't see anything on her head here? It had not yet darkened all the way up?

And thanks for the nice words about her too, btw! When I got her, she was completely gray with strong stress lines - I hadn't a clue what she'd actually look like! I was very pleasantly surprised when she colored up! :)
 

mel_20_20

AC Members
Sep 1, 2008
3,300
1
38
Deep in the heart of texas
Beautiful Betta! I'm a little worried that this could be early Columnaris. It doesn't look like true fungus to me, which will have a hairy, whispy look; like a piece of food you accidentally left in the tank and has gotten long hairy looking fuzz.

Yet, it does look like there is something on top of the scales and not just a discoloration, to me. So this is what has me concerned.

Columnaris is more like wet cotton. Kinda flat, but also can look filmy. This may be nothing, but I'd do daily water changes, matching temperature with a really good condtioner. I love Prime, because it really helps detoxify any ammonia and nitrite traces, even as you do need to continue to do water changes.

I'd slowly bring the temperature in the tank down to around 75 or 76 degrees. If this is Columnaris, temps of 77 and above really help the bacteria take of like gangbusters.

I would watch her like a hawk to see if you see any signs that this area is getting bigger or more filmy. Other dark, dull areas that appear anywhere can be a sign of Columnaris.

I believe, if I were you, I'd go ahead and get some antibiotic to have on hand, just in case this becomes obviously Columnaris. I don't know what you have available, but I have used Kanamycin, or Kanaplex, with success.

Another good one is Furan 2. In fact, Kanaplex and Furan 2 can safely be combined for a powerful punch.

If not those, then the combo of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 can be used. (the combo is best, because usually an aeromonas infection will accompany a Columnaris infection and the Maracyn works on that, while the Maracyn 2 works on the Columnaris.)

Please keep us posted, and I hope this turns out to be nothing.

Others here on AC that are more experienced with Bettas will hopefully chime in, too.
 

Saje

AC Members
Sep 27, 2009
167
0
0
New York
Hey Mel! :)

Okay - thanks for the info, though to read that it may well be columnaris made my heart sink. As you probably remember, been through it about a year ago with a much beloved male betta with huge sores that nearly ate right through him and I *do not* want to go through it again.

Quick question. Since I first noticed it on Friday night, there has been no change in either it or her (though it MIGHT be a little less obvious than it was, I dunno). There are no new spots of anything that I can see. She still eats like a pig and is acting totally normal. Can I delude myself into believing that since it's not getting any worse or spreading or anything else, that it may well not be columnaris? Or can it sometimes go like this and still be that?
 

mel_20_20

AC Members
Sep 1, 2008
3,300
1
38
Deep in the heart of texas
Hi, Samantha! I just sent you an email, today. :) Yes, I do remember your sweet boy, Buster, may he rest in peace.

Here's a comment by a very very experienced Betta keeper, with a biology/science/medicine background who has dealt with Columnaris many many times. The following comment pretty much made a big impression on me.

I've copied and pasted this info from her post in another thread dealing with a sick fish in this forum. Here's her comment regarding the early signs of Columnaris.

I'm not sure, but I believe Sherryazure is quoting from the website flippersandfins.net in the following exerpt regarding the early signs of Flavobacter Columnare (FC)

Probably from the very excellent article "The Dreaded Flexibacter", by Dr. Barb, on that site.

*************************************************

http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

I've done hundreds of betta rescues where this and it's various forms is common (many different manifestations and as well shows up differently often in different fish species) and did much work on treating often end stages (covered with eyes missing) and even did government research to use h202 (very common in commercial fisheries so a great deal of this type of scientific data out there) (so much research as I used it after end stage due to building fire and holistic methods used on myself (iv's from doctor due to internal fungus! run wild into all of my organs and even bloodstream) - (was getting Masters in biochemistry).

But by the time is shows up on the surface the columes of bacteria are deeply embedded in the body of said fish, organs et al... and one reason why hard to treat with baths medical treatments (I learned that the single cell discoloration in the betta - didn't know what it was at first, but quickly learned that was THE beginning and best time to treat)...


***************************************************************


It was a little hard to follow Sherry's references, her information was extensive in her post, but the above quote is either Sherryazure speaking from her own experience, or quoting the article by Dr. Barb on FlippersandFins.net.

Samantha, my gut tells me that this is the very earliest sign of Flavobacter Columnare in your Betta, so if this were my Betta I would jump on it. There seems to me in the photographs that the area is not just a flat area, but that there is some degree of elavation to the lesion... a filminess or fluffiness that is very slight but noticable... at least to my eye.

If this is early FC, then Kanamycin and Furan 2 would be my first choice. Although I did succesfully use Maracyn and Maracyn 2. Some have reported resistant strains to the Maracyns, however. Bring the temperature in the tank down slowly to 75 degrees.

I think I would also add some salt, slowly, bringing the salinity up in the tank to 0.1 or 0.2%. Studies show the bacteria slows down it's spread over the surface of the body in salinity concentrations of 0.1 to 0.3% with the higher concentrations affecting lower mortality in the tank.


There's some argument about the effectiveness of salinty for fish already infected, saying that it's more to prevent others that have been exposed from contracting Columnaris. I have, however,read an abstract that indicated it did, in that study, indeed, help fish already infected with Columnaris.

Evenso, I don't think I'd go more than 0.2%.... you may even be more cautious and keep it at 0.1% which is one teaspoon per gallon.

There are other suggested antibiotics for the treatment of Columnaris, and others may chime in with help on this; the more help from experienced Betta keepers the better, but I think, personally, I'd go with Kanamycin and Furan 2.

You might even PM Sherryazure and ask her to take a look at this thread and give you her opinion. BTW, I emailed you to tell you about an orange Betta girl she wants to rehome to someone in NYC, since I remembered that you were from NYC I thought of you. It's in the Classified section on AC.

Having said all that, I hope others join in with this and offer advice on this for your consideration. I'm not a vet and by no means the most experienced fishkeeper here, so I hope we can get more opinions here.

I'm so sorry that you're having this difficulty and I do so hope that your new little friend will be OK.
 
Last edited:

msjinkzd

AC Members
Feb 11, 2007
18,306
5
89
PA
msjinkzd.com
Real Name
Rachel O'Leary
I have very very little experience with bettas, but I agree with Mel.I would not wait to see if it gets larger as it looks like its the start of columnaris to me as well. Here is one of my favorite links for treatment (which has a TON of other links with information on how to determine type of columnaris and treatment): http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134928
Luckily since you tank is small, it won't be uber expensive to treat. One thing you might do is put a spare sponge into your established tank because meds can effect your biofilter and once treatment is over, you can add the newly established sponge back to her tank to help with the possible stress of it cycling again (especially since its new and not quite stable yet).

Best of luck and I hope she is better in no time.
 

Saje

AC Members
Sep 27, 2009
167
0
0
New York
Photo heavy...

Oh well bleh. Mel & Rachel, definitely not the news I wanted. Better to know early though and be able to treat, of course. Thank you both.

Weird thing is that it actually looks better - does that make sense? Does that sort of follow with columnaris? There are no other new spots or anything that I can see, and the one she does have (as pictured in the original post) now looks "better." It used to, as you can see, look like something sort of on the scales, now it's not nearly as noticeable to the naked eye (it was) - I need the camera's macro lens to show me what it looks like. If it had always looked like it does now, I MIGHT not have even noticed it. I took a bunch more pics - they are below. You can see it now doesn't look so much like something on the scales, more only sort of inbetween or under or something ... hard to describe but you can see what I mean below. Gave you a few overall pics as well as 2 closeups (click them all to make them full size so you can see well), and a comparison between Sep 10 and Sep 13. Please lmk what you think and if you guys still think treating her is best, I of course shall. (Pics below.)
(PS - Mel, if it matters, I'm not in NYC; actually about an hour or hour and a half outside, but I did e-mail you back about that pretty little betta girl.)
Here are the current pics:










 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store