30 gallon x-tall viv (planning stages, some newb questions)

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Inka4040

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Mar 31, 2008
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Hey everyone. I'm starting to sketch out some plans for my next project, and after must internal conflict, have decided that I'd be happier in the long run with a viv than with another half butted attempt at a reef tank. It's been years since I've even attempted any full sized viv or terrarium however, and I've got a few questions pertaining to hardware and some setup issues that hopefully you guys can help me with.

The two most pressing questions I have pertain to misting systems, and heating such a tank. I've looked into the mist king system, and as quality as it looks, the fact that I need to drill holes for the mister nozzles is a bit worrisome. I don't have the requisite tools or know how to be drilling holes into glass lids, and actually, am worried enough about just finding a glazier who will cut a thick enough lid for use. Are there any automation friendly systems that don't necessarily need to have the nozzles drilled in for installation? Also, I am assuming that these vivs should not be entirely sealed off, and require some sort of ventilation. How do I accomplish this in a smaller setup without creating an escape risk?

As for heating, what are the generally accepted options for heating a setup like this? In the interest of simplicity, I would like to avoid any need for a water feature, or false bottom with reservoir that could fit an aquarium heater. Do under tank heating pads or behind the back heating pads heat efficiently? What are the controls like, and how reliable are they at keeping specific temperatures? I tend to keep my room on the cold side at night, and worry about the ambient day/night temperatures in the tank swinging wildly between the low 60s and mid 80s (at least during the summer).

I am not going to lie. The first and foremost concern in the construction of this viv is absolutely aesthetics. I would definitely enjoy some small inhabitants (leaning towards dendrobates auratus or leucomelas) but if the conditions are not fit for them, that is secondary to the visual impact of the setup. Ghazanfar Ghori's tank linked below is the inspiration I am working from.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/9098-construction-completed-9.html

As such, the tank will be furnished with fern bark panels on the back as well as both sides. The scaping will consist of a large pile of lava rock in the back left of the tank, with numerous manzanita branches coming from the corners as can be seen in my poorly drawn diagram (attached). The lava rock area will be directly under a mister head, and I plan to grow numerous anubias cultivars along with some aquatic liverworts and mosses over the whole structure. The idea is to get complete plant coverage over the lava rock, and it will be there mainly to add some dimensionality and texture, as well as serve as a raised area for growing more delicate plants. The backs and sides will probably be planted with small ferns and hydrocotyle, creeping ficus, pepperomia, and other small plants in order to create a wall of mixed growth.

Sorry for the overly verbose post. Any ideas, suggestions, or reactions would be greatly helpful. Thanks in advance.

photo.JPG
 

Inka4040

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Mar 31, 2008
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Yeah, I was drooling over the utric thread on dendroboard last night. Some gorgeous flowers in that group, almost like halfway between a sweet pea bloom and an oncidium orchid for some of them. Wish there were more pics of what the actual plants look like, however. Seems like they'd be a good choice. Given the small size of the tank, I really need to put thought into scale appropriate foliage choices.
 

Juice

KillaOJ
Jan 4, 2009
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Looks like it's gonna be a neat project, I'm curious to see what you get in ways of the mister because i want to install one on my terrarium at some point and also don't feel confident about drilling holes etc. If you need some manzanita I'd be more then happy to send you some good pieces if you want to cover shipping, I have more then enough so sharing is no problemo! Look forward to seeing what you do, I know you have a way with all things green :D
 

mellowvision

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May 17, 2007
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drilling half inch holes for misting nozzles isn't like drilling a bulkhead, far lower chance of failure. You, or any glass shop will be able to do that. If you're getting 1/4" lids cut, they'll drill them for you for a couple of bucks per hole. you should go to the greek guys I went to in bayridge. they did a fine job for cheap.

you really will need a drain. if you don't want to drill the bottom (or can't) you can use a siphon, but you might want to use a narrower hose than you might normally for that, so it stays as submerged as possible. if you don't get water build up, great, but you probably will. be prepared.

You can however, use mistking fixtures without drilling, by either building a cieling inside the enclosre with eggcrate, or using magnets to hold it to the glass.

in terms of misting layout, keep in mind that the mist pattern is pretty wide, and that unless you get the fancy nozzles I've read about, a lot of them drip. so, that may influence your positioning. I'd recommend buying your misting gear first, before you get your lids.

that's what I got right now. you know I'll be back for more.
 

Inka4040

O_o
Mar 31, 2008
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Thanks a lot for the offer, Em. I'm looking for some very specific things with the driftwood, but I'd be glad to get some from you if you've got it. Thanks for the complement, you know I live and breathe that green!

drilling half inch holes for misting nozzles isn't like drilling a bulkhead, far lower chance of failure. You, or any glass shop will be able to do that. If you're getting 1/4" lids cut, they'll drill them for you for a couple of bucks per hole. you should go to the greek guys I went to in bayridge. they did a fine job for cheap.

you really will need a drain. if you don't want to drill the bottom (or can't) you can use a siphon, but you might want to use a narrower hose than you might normally for that, so it stays as submerged as possible. if you don't get water build up, great, but you probably will. be prepared.

You can however, use mistking fixtures without drilling, by either building a cieling inside the enclosre with eggcrate, or using magnets to hold it to the glass.

in terms of misting layout, keep in mind that the mist pattern is pretty wide, and that unless you get the fancy nozzles I've read about, a lot of them drip. so, that may influence your positioning. I'd recommend buying your misting gear first, before you get your lids.

that's what I got right now. you know I'll be back for more.
Dude, you know I must be missing the diy portion of my brain. I can't put up shades without a certain degree of failure lol. If anything, I'd rather drill them into the glass, as the eggcrate might be a bit visually invasive. If anything, I might use bits of wire mesh and super glue for any ventilation. How specific were those guys in Bay Ridge able to cut? Could they do cutout corners and the like?

The mister is basically the only major equipment piece I need to purchase save the tank, so it will likely be the 2nd thing I get. Gonna recycle the 24" coralife from the orchid setup once their humidity chamber is built, so after that, the heater is the only other thing I'm gonna need to pick up.

I really want to see what the exact mist pattern is going to be like, and whether it absolutely precludes the possibility of dryer areas towards the top of the tank. I really don't mind a bit of soaking in the bottom areas. If necessary, that portion could be completely scaped with aquarium plants, and I wouldn't entirely mind. Do you think a pvc standpipe, coupled with a reducer minus a few notches would be enough to provide for water removal, I could just drop a small siphon in there and pull out excess liquid when needed. Figure that'd be really easy to hide amongst leaf litter, etc. Any chance you've got a link to the magnet mistking procedure?
 

mellowvision

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May 17, 2007
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The guys in bayridge can cut an angle off a corner, anything much beyond that will require waterjet cutting, which I still don't have a good local source for. There are places online, but shipping glass is expensive.

You might be able to make a workable standpipe... you'd need to be creative but I don't think there's anything too tricky there, besides hiding and keeping it in place.

I think there are different mist nozzles available, not just from mistking, with different patterns and amounts of drip, etc. I can't imagine they don't need to be cleaned from time to time unless you use RO water, so you don't want to make them too hard to get to, but if you look closely at the viv in your link there, he's got nozzles along the bottom front edge too. That would be one way to go.... although you're guaranteed to soak your substrate. With top mounted nozzles, you could use a baffle/louvre positioned just above the nozzle, that stops mist from reaching the top most areas.

When I mentioned magnets, I just meant Magclips, matched to the size of the misting tubes. They're pretty strong, I use them to hold up my small shelves in the moss holding tank.

You know, another, less expensive way to go, and pretty **** cool looking, would be to use a small cool mist humidifier, and skip actual misting all together. A lot of people swear by the cool mist, and it creates a fog which is nice. Plumbing that in would be pretty easy without drilling... or you can use plexi for your back strip which is easy to cut and drill... lots of options.
 

dundadundun

;sup' dog? ;woof and a wwwoof!
Jan 21, 2009
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mist king misters are extremely easy to set up with the instructions... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mistking.com%2Fsupport%2Fmisting_system_instructions.pdf&ei=InK6TLTZJoH7lwfr7oHLDQ&usg=AFQjCNEPWkceplegRsw1nCztyn1cHLTisw&sig2=juQSH76qRh37fo8jv9qkAg

with the intermediate kit you get little corner pieces to hold the nozzles if you prefer. check them out... http://www.mistking.com/ultimate-misting-system.html

i really like the mist king timer. it works by the second and is the only digital timer that's never off time in my entire house. the battery that keeps the time recharges itself too. :D

drilling really is this easy...
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just don't press on the drill... and make sure you start at an angle and hold the drill tight to make your guide. once it's scored in it almost holds itself. you can get 1/2" ceramic tile/glass bits at any home depot or lowes.

one 1/2" bit is ~$10 and can be used as many times as you need it to... unless you get seriously addicted.

a uth can be utilized on a rheostat/lamp dimmer/wall dimmer or in conjunction with a temp controller as a means of a constant and most likely depending on species your day lamp can provide the rest of your heat as well as a day/night temp differential.

looks like ghanzafar encorporated a little of the kitty litter/clay background method in the left back corner at least. pretty simple method and lots of folks are doing that recently. be forewarned, it can dry up and fall apart if not kept sufficiently moist. forgive me for skimming if i'm wrong on that.

you should look into the diy foggers if you don't go with a nice misting system. it won't give you the seasonal rain to trigger spawning but it will do everything else you need done.
 

dundadundun

;sup' dog? ;woof and a wwwoof!
Jan 21, 2009
4,295
2
38
S.E. PA
also... i find lots of aquarium plants to be ideal for a humid viv... which makes things a lot simpler. :D

EDIT: and a 1/4" john guest slip fitting bulkhead i think fits into a 1/2" hole... add a john guest valve and some tube and you've got yourself a drain.
 
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