Water problems

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AMDninjaboy

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Hi all,

I have a new 35 gal saltwater tank running with a dwarf porcupine puffer in it. The tank has been up for 6 weeks and the cycle is taking forever to finish. I know it isnt good to cycle a tank with fish in it but the wife saw this porc and just had to have it so Ive been working my butt of with water changes to keep the water paramaters within reason. I have a liquid test kit and have been checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph. I recently purchased an RO filter to have good water to start with. I have been using tap water and checked it with the test kit and it had 1ppm ammonia in it right out of the tap. So now with RO water the water is perfect(PH is only 7.4) but the salt mix beings it up to 7.8.

Question is my ammonia according to the test kit shows really dark green(8.0ppm+), yet my puffer shows no signs of any trouble, he happily swims around and eats (i feed every 2 days) Ive done 3 large water changes in the past 2 weeks(approx 25 gals) and nitrite is at .5 and nitrate is at 20 now(was 80) but the ammonia still registers off the chart(dark green 8.0ppm+)
How is this possible with the large water changes and the puffer showing no signs of distress?? I was thinking faulty test kit but it did show me 1ppm in my tap water and 0ppm in the RO water..
Am I missing something here..

Thanks Shane.:help:
 
greech

greech

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Graham
If you're questioning the validity of your test kit have your LFS run a separate test for you.

That said, you really need to remove the puffer. Not only is ammonia highly toxic, you are starting your tank off on the wrong foot and you will be fighting an uphill battle for quite a while. As you mentioned, the tank is still cycling and it is going to take a while for the RO/DI to flush out and replace the tap. At 6 weeks you should be close to if not over the initial cycle by now (had you not added the fish/bioload).

The puffers behavior should not be used as a canary in this situation. Ammonia can take time to kill but there really is no way the puffer should be alive at 8ppm even with large WC's.

EDIT: How much LR do you have and was it cured, partially cured or dry rock when you started.
 
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AMDninjaboy

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no live rock, just crushed coral for substrate and an emporer power filter with bio-wheel. I also have a Prizm skimmer running.. I understand I need to get the puffer out, I'm working on gettin him back to the fish store till the tank is done cycling.. I am seriously considering adding a sump tank underneath and putting some live rock down there with some Chaeto(spelling??) algae to help with the Nitrate when the tank is running properly.. I knew that it was going to be alot of work to run the tank with it cycling with the puffer in it, try telling the wife its not good but she was like hes so adorable etc.. he wont be adorable when he is dead, but she doesnt get it... I just dont get how ammonia can stay pegged with almost 3 complete water changes( if you include the small water changes I have been doing I have probably changed the water 4 times over yet with no drop in ammonia. Hopefully the fish store will call and tell me to bring the puffer over soon...
Thanks for your input greech..

Shane.
 
greech

greech

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No problem and understood. IMO a penguin biowheel and CC isn't gonna cut it even with a lot of elbow grease on your part. You can use the HOB filter for media and additional water circulation but it isn't going to handle the bioload on its own. Get some good live rock and/or dry rock to serve as your primary biological filtration. Once your tank cycles with LR you won't see ammonia like that again. While you're at it you may want to consider replacing your CC bed with aragonite sand. I have no experience with CC myself but have run across a few people locally that didn't have much success with it and replaced it with sand with much better results and fewer issues.
 
Khemul

Khemul

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Only thing to add to what greech already said;

How big is the puffer? Pretty sure you are gonna have problems either way keeping a Porcupine Puffer in a 37g. Puffers also tend to produce a large bio-load. They are not good to cycle a tank with since even small ones can overload the tank quickly.

The thing about ammonia is percentages. You had 8+. This is the highest the test kit goes. You could have had 10, 20, or even 30+. Now lets say for example that you have 25. You do a 50% water change. Now you have 12-13. You do another 50%. Now you have 6 or so. If the puffer is producing more then 1ppm a day, then you are gonna keep seeing the test kit maxing out. Based on your nitrate levels I'd guess your ammonia reading actually does make sense. It is surpising the puffer would still be alive (they are very sensitive to ammonia/nitrite) but not entirely impossible. Ammonia burns, so the puffer may just be very tolerant of it. But no matter how tolerant it is, it is only going to take so much burning.
 
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AMDninjaboy

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The puffer is about 4" right now. The LFS said he is a dwarf as they had him for about 6 months and he didnt get any bigger.. I had a puffer before a few years ago when I had a 90 gal with a 35 gal sump and about 65lbs of live rock. So am I fighting against not enough surface are for bacteria to do the job. I have CC substrate and a penguin with the single bio-wheel. I bought a 20L tank tonight and am gonna make up some new saltwater tonight and tomorrow and move him in there till I can get him moved somewhere.. Do you think if I make the 20L into a sump with some live rock that between that, the power filter and the CC bed that it will give me enough area to have the bacteria do their thing?
 
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AMDninjaboy

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Thats what the LFS told me.. Maybe I was stupid to believe them.. I will get some pics and post them. they said you could tell from how large his eyes are compared to the rest of him. When I had my porc in my previous tank (90 gal) he was also a dwarf porc because I had him for 2 yrs and he only grew maybe 1/2", he never got over 5" long in the couple years I had him...

Shane.
 
Pufferpunk

Pufferpunk

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Please be a strong enough human being not to sacrifice a living animal for your wife's whims. Return that puffer. Better yet, find a reputable shop that will offer the correct advice & not stunt a puffer or tell you a lie about it, just to make $$$ off you. There is no such fish as a dwarf porc. You are doing permanent damage to this fish's respiratory system with ammonia poisoning. Please do the right thing & learn to stand up to your wife.

If you want a puffer, do some research 1st.
 
Pufferpunk

Pufferpunk

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