I just killed all my Loaches!! I have this 46 Euro that was an all Loach tank except for 4 Killi's. I have had a problem with it lately with being a little cloudy. I run an Eheim 2236 and a Penguin 150 on it. It has been set up and running great for about 6 months. It has just always been a bit cloudy. I use Seachem Stability and Prime when setting up and from time to time just to keep things in good shape. My wife bought me a three pack of Seachem products for so holiday and I had never opened it. When I looked at it today I noticed it had Stability, Prime and Clarity in it. So I decide to give the Clarity a shot. It said it would not harm fish or invertebrates, BULL$&#@!! It also said that the water may get a little cloudy and smell like sulfur when first put in but would clear within a couple hours. So when I put it in the tank got a little cloudy and smelled like sulfur, so it must be working. Well I had to run some errands today and when I got back ALL of my Loaches where dead!! There skin was literally burned off. I used 1 capful just like the directions said. My beautiful 7" Yellow Tail Blue and Tiger Botia's. All of my Loaches: Yo-Yo's, Kuhlies, Skunks, Zebras and a couple Sand somethings. I never used a clarity product and now I will know to never use one again. A Brutal lesson learned. The only thing that changed in this tank was adding the Clarity product. Has anyone else ever had a problem like this?
SEACHEM CLARITY KILLED MY LOACHES!!
- Thread starter PlecoLuvr
- Start date
+1.
I'm a little leery about adding a liquid to clarify water. I used Purigen instead. I know it doesn't help now, but I am sorry for your loss. I used to have clown loaches that I really enjoyed having. One got to be almost 7 inches. I don't know how I would feel after losing more than just the three I had. I know they either died of old age (all about 2-3 years old, I'd guess, based on growth from purchase) or bad water quality from when I didn't understand why water changes were important.
Very sorry for your loss 
I would also suggest calling Seachem. It sounds like there was a bad chemical interaction of some sort.
If it is just a flocculant (a product that binds smaller particles into larger ones which the filter can more easily process) then it should be completely harmless. It says it is reef safe, and there is nothing more sensitive than corals. You can read more about it here:
http://www.azaquaticplants.com/community/showthread.php?t=12029
Anyway, I think you had some ammonia issues to begin with...probably from overstocking, not to diss you in any way. I don't know how many loaches you had, but 7" loaches are going to put a lot of strain on any tank, they really need at least a 4' if not a 6' tank. Even though the Eheim 2236 is rated for an 80 gallon tank, it still only has 185 gph. The Penguin 150 adds another 150 gph. 335 total gallons per hour turnover is not a lot for a 46 gallon tank, especially with fish that need a lot of dissolved oxygen like loaches. It's only 36" long, so not a lot of floor space for active loaches.
I'm really SO sorry this happened to you, but when you get a chance to restock the tank make an effort to keep it lighter and maybe try to keep just a few species instead of 7 types. Some of those, like skunk loaches, can be quite aggressive too. Your best bet is zebra loaches or any of the other smaller loaches, also a couple of Koralia powerheads on each end will help a lot with adding oxygenation and aeration to the water, which loaches need to thrive. Or if you're handy, you might try a DIY project:
http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design
I know how fun it is to "collect" different species and have run into this trouble myself (which is how I've ended up with over 10 aquariums now, lol) but I found out long ago that keeping a tank balanced on a razor's edge and having to deal with algae and cloudy water (no matter what, if your tank is overstocked, you will never have that crystal clear water) is just not worth the fun of keeping multiple species. I stock my tank according to the size and space I have, and always overfilter and keep it light. It makes it a lot easier to maintain, a lot more pleasing to look at and in the end the fish are happier too
I would also suggest calling Seachem. It sounds like there was a bad chemical interaction of some sort.
If it is just a flocculant (a product that binds smaller particles into larger ones which the filter can more easily process) then it should be completely harmless. It says it is reef safe, and there is nothing more sensitive than corals. You can read more about it here:
http://www.azaquaticplants.com/community/showthread.php?t=12029
Anyway, I think you had some ammonia issues to begin with...probably from overstocking, not to diss you in any way. I don't know how many loaches you had, but 7" loaches are going to put a lot of strain on any tank, they really need at least a 4' if not a 6' tank. Even though the Eheim 2236 is rated for an 80 gallon tank, it still only has 185 gph. The Penguin 150 adds another 150 gph. 335 total gallons per hour turnover is not a lot for a 46 gallon tank, especially with fish that need a lot of dissolved oxygen like loaches. It's only 36" long, so not a lot of floor space for active loaches.
I'm really SO sorry this happened to you, but when you get a chance to restock the tank make an effort to keep it lighter and maybe try to keep just a few species instead of 7 types. Some of those, like skunk loaches, can be quite aggressive too. Your best bet is zebra loaches or any of the other smaller loaches, also a couple of Koralia powerheads on each end will help a lot with adding oxygenation and aeration to the water, which loaches need to thrive. Or if you're handy, you might try a DIY project:
http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design
I know how fun it is to "collect" different species and have run into this trouble myself (which is how I've ended up with over 10 aquariums now, lol) but I found out long ago that keeping a tank balanced on a razor's edge and having to deal with algae and cloudy water (no matter what, if your tank is overstocked, you will never have that crystal clear water) is just not worth the fun of keeping multiple species. I stock my tank according to the size and space I have, and always overfilter and keep it light. It makes it a lot easier to maintain, a lot more pleasing to look at and in the end the fish are happier too
I'd be leaning on the fact that the tank was cloudy to begin with. Since this was an ongoing issue, I'm leaning on the particles causing the double whammy and the last three chemicals finished it off. Since the particles were most likely live were using up O2 and giving off CO2 while being in the water column furthur decreased the o2 content. the prime and stability probably helped the a little but also decreased the O2 content via chemical interaction. Adding a clarifying agent even furthur decreases the O2. Once the loaches go from high o2 to uber low.. not good
If the cloudieness was caused by ammonia becomming ammonium? I don't think the loaches would even survive to that state of a tank
If the cloudieness was caused by ammonia becomming ammonium? I don't think the loaches would even survive to that state of a tank
It's also possible that something you added to your tank raised the pH, making the ammonia present much more toxic. It's almost certain that there was some ammonia present since you observed persistent bacterial cloudiness (vs. just silty water, like from unwashed gravel).
It sounds to me like the fish died of ammonia burn. Seachem's Clarity is just a polymer, doesn't really have any chemical burning properties. If you look at the Material Safety Data Sheet:
http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Clarity.doc.pdf
It seems very safe. And while I doubt it has pH raising ability, it may...that's why I would contact Seachem and calmly discuss the situation, hopefully they can give you some answers or insights.
It sounds to me like the fish died of ammonia burn. Seachem's Clarity is just a polymer, doesn't really have any chemical burning properties. If you look at the Material Safety Data Sheet:
http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Clarity.doc.pdf
It seems very safe. And while I doubt it has pH raising ability, it may...that's why I would contact Seachem and calmly discuss the situation, hopefully they can give you some answers or insights.
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Sorry for your loss. But this may also be from the suspended particles (whatever they were). I had the same problem with an algae remover. Killed off 7 denison barbs and a gold nugget pleco.
Def talk to Seachem about it. Do you have a recent water test to go off of prior to adding Clarity?
Def talk to Seachem about it. Do you have a recent water test to go off of prior to adding Clarity?
I'm sorry for your loss, but having seen the same issue in a tank of mine, and losing the fish, I too, suspect ammonia. After I did nothing but remove the dead fish - the water cleared the next day and stayed clear until I tore the tank down and sterilized everything just in case.
IF you call Seachem, and ask them for help diagnosing your tank, they may offer help. If you call and rage at them over their product, they will probably say they're sorry for your loss, and hang up.
Save the bottle, save some water samples. Save filter media and gravel samples. All can be tested.
The Seachem Clarity Material Safety Data Sheet lists the following as ingredients.
Proprietary aqueous solution of inorganic precipitating agent and organic flocculating polymer. Unless the product was tampered with - there is nothing there to burn fish.
Even a cap full of pure acid or lye poured into 46 gallons of water couldn't cause the type of damage you saw.
IF you call Seachem, and ask them for help diagnosing your tank, they may offer help. If you call and rage at them over their product, they will probably say they're sorry for your loss, and hang up.
Save the bottle, save some water samples. Save filter media and gravel samples. All can be tested.
The Seachem Clarity Material Safety Data Sheet lists the following as ingredients.
Proprietary aqueous solution of inorganic precipitating agent and organic flocculating polymer. Unless the product was tampered with - there is nothing there to burn fish.
Even a cap full of pure acid or lye poured into 46 gallons of water couldn't cause the type of damage you saw.
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Thanks to all for the advice, it is appreciated. After reading what you all have posted it may not have been the Clarity and was more then likely ammonia. The thing that made me go right to the clarity is that is was the only thing different. Because the tank was a little overstocked I due weekly water exchanges. My Sunday mornings are spent doing water exchanges in my 4 tanks and cleaning the hardwood with all the water I get everywhere, lol. I did a water change the day before and I almost didn't due one because the water test showed good readings. The ammonia levels in that tank have always hovered between 0 and 0.25, again probably because of overstocking. Maybe when I added the Seachem products it did raise the ph which would have made the ammonia more toxic. I needed to calm down for a few days before calling Seachem. I will be calling today and will let you all know what they said. Thanks again for your help
