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  1. #11
    Senior Member mel_20_20's Avatar
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    Ricky, I think your right to follow Icthius' advice on this.

    I do believe that if you bring your salinity to 3ppt concentration you should do that sorta gradually; I've done it in three doses over 36 hours, safely, and you could probably do it in 24, but I don't know for sure if that's best.

    I would have the same salinity in the tank water after the tank sterilization. I wouldn't put a fish in fresh unsalted water abruptly after you've had him at 3ppt for a few days: you want to back off slowly on the salinity.

    I've never done a PP dip, (scares the heck out of me), and I would need some hand holding on that, myself.

    Having put in my two cents, I certainly defer to Icthius on this treatment plan and would go with his input on the salinity issue, as well; it sounds like he has quite a bit of experience with a similar case in orandas. I've kept a variety of fish safely at that salt concentration for 30 days while treating a salt/heat resistant case of Ich, but I don't know how long he advises to keep your oranda in the salted water for this condition. I'm sure he will be back with more input on this.

    I hope things go well for you, Ricky. I know how frustrating it is and how desperate you can feel when you have a sick fish and don't really know definitively what the diagnosis is and the treatment should be.

    Hopefully, things will improve with this treatment plan. Wishing the best for you and your little oranda.
    Last edited by mel_20_20; 09-03-2011 at 12:33 AM.
    100g: Tank build in progress. Indian Biotope - swiftwater hillstream.
    20g L: Chili Rasboras, Yellow shrimp, Nerites, MTS, Ramshorns, Planted.
    40g B: Rummy Nose Tetras, Cardinals, Otos, Green Babaulti, Amanos, Nerites, MTS
    10g: Blueberry shrimp, Amanos, Ramshorns, Pond snails, MTS, planted.
    10g: Plant quarantine tank
    10g: Hospital/QT (empty)





  2. #12
    Senior Member platytudes's Avatar
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    If you get a chance, try emailing the folks at Wet Web Media. Neale Monks and Bob Fenner are both experts (not to mention authors) with over 50 years experience between them. They always have given me, if not a clear cut answer, then an excellent starting point for further research:
    http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminS...on_page.htmwhy

    Try and get some macro pics...for whatever reason (not sure this is still the case) they really don't like to look at YouTube videos, although I can't see that they wouldn't make an exception for a case like this, especially if you can't get sharp, focused pics.

    Oh, and don't mind the ridiculously long, unfriendly and confusing lists of rules and site search suggestions. I think it is their [misguided, IMO] attempt to filter out frivolous questions that really are a waste of their time ("my fish has white bumps on it, what's up with that?" or "my guppies are nipping my betta in my 5 gallon tank, what should I do?") since they have been answered a million times before.

    Some may call it elitist, but they respond very positively and thoroughly to someone who is able to display verbal prowess, such as yourself. Not that they aren't patient with people who don't articulate well, but I imagine it is a breath of fresh air to come upon an eloquent email now and then.



  3. #13
    O_o Inka4040's Avatar
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    Thanks so much, Mel. The more I read up on the PP dip, the more it scares me as well. Considering how exact the dosing needs to be, I am not sure how I'm gonna go about achieving the proper concentrations without something like a jewelry or medicine scale.
    In any case, I will be performing a scrape today, though I don't really have the confidence or steadiness of hand to attempt a gill scrape. Been looking up youtube vids of the big 3 parasites to see what I need to be on the lookout for. Presumably I can video what is going on in the slide, and if that works, I will upload it for further review on this thread.

    Unfortunately, despite repeated tries, I cannot get a photo that even remotely shows the nodules. Between the mottled skin, the different layers of pigment in the wen, and the movement of the fish, unfortunately, the camera is just not picking up anything particularly descriptive.
    Thanks for the link to WWM, Nicole! I'll give them a shout and see what they say.


    Found this method of treating a whole tank with PP without the need for removing the fish. What do y'all think of this as a solution?
    http://www.goldfishconnection.com/ar...=87&parentId=5
    "Bladow! Sciences all up in your face parts!"" - Some drunk
    [mellowvision] 9:07 pm: I like to imagine crazy things about him, like "I bet he'll use mountain dew and electricity to revive those dead ghost shrimp he's putting over there."



  4. #14
    O_o Inka4040's Avatar
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    Scraped both the ventral and dorsal surfaces. Found nothing that moved. Granted, I know this is no guarantee that their gills are clean, but it's a good sign at least.
    "Bladow! Sciences all up in your face parts!"" - Some drunk
    [mellowvision] 9:07 pm: I like to imagine crazy things about him, like "I bet he'll use mountain dew and electricity to revive those dead ghost shrimp he's putting over there."



  5. #15
    Senior Member Arakkis's Avatar
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    u sure you don't have a male goldfish?
    Collector of the rare and weird. Still don't have a Sand Worm yet =)



  6. #16
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    I think he is pretty sure, as its on one side only and the fish is still quite young.



  7. #17
    O_o Inka4040's Avatar
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    The original seller already has a batch of about 200 1" fry from this particular female, so yeah. I also know what breeding tubercles look like, lol. Thanks for your input though.
    "Bladow! Sciences all up in your face parts!"" - Some drunk
    [mellowvision] 9:07 pm: I like to imagine crazy things about him, like "I bet he'll use mountain dew and electricity to revive those dead ghost shrimp he's putting over there."



  8. #18
    O_o Inka4040's Avatar
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    After further research, I have decided to treat both qt tanks with quick cure. If costia, trichodina, or childondinella is the problem, then that should take care of it entirely. After the quick cure treatment, I can wait a week and hit them with prazi just in case of flukes, and hopefully that will clear up the issue.

    David, if I end up having to go the medicated food route, is there a particular brand or variety that you would recommend? Any particular ingredients that I should look out for?
    "Bladow! Sciences all up in your face parts!"" - Some drunk
    [mellowvision] 9:07 pm: I like to imagine crazy things about him, like "I bet he'll use mountain dew and electricity to revive those dead ghost shrimp he's putting over there."



  9. #19
    Senior Member mel_20_20's Avatar
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    Ricky, I've been researching this issue, when I've been able to be home long enough to be on the computer, and I've found some good information about medicated food for goldfish. I first was reading about antibiotic and antiparasitic medicated foods on the Goldfish Connection at this link:

    http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/listing.php?parentId=5

    This guy has developed this medicated food and I've read lots of reviews/testimonials by happy customers, on his site, as to the effectiveness of the MediGold medicated food. Apparently it tastes pretty good and even sick fish tend to go for it.

    Glowing reports on this guy's website, notwithstanding, I wanted to check it out from other sources and found that the medicated food MediGold was reviewed favorably on THE GAB, The Goldfish And Aquarium Board website. You've probably seen this site before, I have gotten a lot of helpful information from this site; Lupin is a moderator over there, too.

    http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatm...-explored.html

    Here's an excerpt from the GAB site discussing this antibiotic medicated food:

    "Medi-Gold and Medikoi
    These are very similar--and have the same medical ingredients. The Medikoi pellets are bigger than the Medi-Gold ones. Either one can be crushed smaller if they are too big for smaller fish to deal with.

    Active ingredients: Ormetoprim, Sulfadimethoxine, Kanamycin and Oxolinic Acid
    Ingredients explored: Oxolinic Acid is a quinolone antibacterial that works by antagonizing DNA synthesis in bacterial cells. Ormetoprim and Sulfadimethoxine (the ingredients in Romet B) both work by inhibiting bacterial growth. Kanamycin is bactericidal and does not just inhibit growth but kills bacteria.

    Use and Comments: With the addition of kanamycin, Medi-Gold is a good product to use against aeromonas infections (often the cause of ulcers) and it should work well against the other common bacterial illnesses as well. Available from PondRx.

    "Conclusions: For antibacterial food Medi-Gold is a very good option as its combination of antibiotics addresses a wide range of bacteria. There are also reports of bacterial resistance to sulfa drugs-a key ingredient in many of the other medications discussed here. Because of this, some people add another anitbiotic Trimethoprim to help strengthen the sulfa drugs. The combination forms are called a potentiated sulfa. Trimethoprim can only be obtained from a vet."

    So you can order this from PondRX or from the Goldfish Connection website, too. Not sure if you can find it locally.

    You can try to mix up your own concoction of food and antibiotic meds, and I've done this, but I've not always had the best success getting the stuff to be very tasty; I've mixed in lots of garlic to make it more appetizing and it works, but I've always had a lot of uneaten food left over to clean up. I've used kanamycin and metronidazole together, successfully, but if you can get the MediGold product I'd go with that.

    David may have other recommendations, or one of the other goldie experts here may have experience with a particular medicated food and, if so, I'd go with their recommendations. I've had experience with tropicals, so I'm not the last word on this by any means. I just want to help if I can.
    100g: Tank build in progress. Indian Biotope - swiftwater hillstream.
    20g L: Chili Rasboras, Yellow shrimp, Nerites, MTS, Ramshorns, Planted.
    40g B: Rummy Nose Tetras, Cardinals, Otos, Green Babaulti, Amanos, Nerites, MTS
    10g: Blueberry shrimp, Amanos, Ramshorns, Pond snails, MTS, planted.
    10g: Plant quarantine tank
    10g: Hospital/QT (empty)



  10. #20
    Senior Member platytudes's Avatar
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    Wow, the MediGold sounds like a real winner...and you could keep any unused portion in the fridge since pellets store so well compared to flake. It seems like an all purpose med since it combines several active ingredients.

    I've used these pellets from Ken's fish, he sent me a little sample of them with my last order:
    http://www.kensfish.com/product649.html

    They worked well when my goldfish had Furunculosis symptoms, of course he was in QT with medicated water...but I like to think the exclusive feeding of that food (which he ate eagerly) helped speed up the recovery process.



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