BN Breeding Question

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EmilyMarie85

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Aug 16, 2010
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Last Saturday morning I noticed my BN male in a cave, fanning. Thought maybe he had some eggs in there... Sunday came, and he was still in there so I scooted him over a little and sure enough I see the eggs. I wasn't really sure what day they spawned, but I think it was Friday. So Tuesday came around and he was still there, so I pushed him over a little and didn't see eggs, so at this point I assume they have hatched. Now its Thursday and he is still there, no eggs... I understand the male guards over them and they eat their egg sack the first few days. Problem is, I can't see in the hole (it's a hole in a piece of driftwood) to see where they are on that. I am worried the male is going to starve them to death, not letting them out. I just tried to squirt some first bites in there, but I don't think much got in. Male would not budge. Should I leave him be or try pulling him out and maybe moving the fry to another tank?

Tank mates are cardinal tetras, 3 cory cats and various shrimp species.
 

dbosman

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Sometimes it tanks a few batches before Dad does a good job.
Sometimes the eggs are eaten despite his best efforts. Some shrimp will be happy to do that.
Sometimes the eggs wash out and he ignores them. Many BN breeders use an egg tumbler or fry catcher to hatch loose or removed eggs.
If Dad is tending fry, they'll get out when they need to. He'll round them up and try to keep them home, but when they're hungry they'll eat.
 

EmilyMarie85

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K. Hopefully in a few days there will be a mass exodus. I just hope he isn't guarding an empty hole. :thud:

Thank you for responding.
 

DLV082

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I breed longfin abn's and they stay in the cave with Dad for a couple of weeks. They don't need to eat until their egg sack has been consumed and as stated above they will venture out when they get hungry.
 

EmilyMarie85

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Update:

So - I waited another week or so, and dad stayed put but started looking really stressed. His color faded and his fins started to look shredded. So I moved him and the driftwood he was guarding into a bucket. A total of exactly 100 fry fell out of that hole. All their sacks were gone, so I put dad back into the main tank and put the fry in a planted 20L and I had let get a bunch of algae allover it when I started suspecting dad was sitting on eggs...

The fry seem healthy, eating algae, sticking to the glass and swimming around a bit. I have also put lettuce in for them, which they have eaten as well. I have been doing water changes every 2 or 3 days - those fry are the only fish in the tank. Other than them, there are 2 amano shrimp and various snails. I keep the temp. at 78 degrees and I stopped dosing ferts when I moved the fry in. Ammonia and Nitrite and Nitrate are 0. I have floating plants (duckweed and water lettuce) that take the Nitrate out for me. So flash forward to this last week.

4-5 days ago I started finding dead fry. I have found I think a total of 8 or 9 dead fry now. I don't see any damage to them when I pull the corpses out, they look like they just stopped living all the sudden... Is it normal to lose this many? They are about 1.5-2 cm in size right now.

Edit: And dad is sitting on another batch of eggs already. I placed a fish order last night that will allow me to turn my 75g into a BN fry rearing tank - so I will move them to larger quarters, I don't plan on keeping them in that 20L.
 

laudy000

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Yeah, as Im sure you know by now, dont mess with dad by pushing him to the side, etc. When they come out, they come out. Dont be too invasive, they are easy to breed and hatch.
 

EmilyMarie85

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Yeah - with this batch I will leave them alone longer, unless dad starts getting all messed up again. The fry survived just fine the first few weeks away from dad, it is only in the last 4-5 days that I started finding dead ones. I think I am getting them out before they foul up the water - and there are snails in there to clean up what I miss - I just don't understand why I am losing any at all? Natural selection or did I royally screw up some where?
 

Ashes2ashes

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I personally wouldn't mess with the dad or the fry. They come out when they are ready. My blue eyed L144 daddy and my regular brown BN daddy both sit on the fry cave for weeks after the hatching usually. They will be fine. If you are worried about Dads nutrition, what I do is drop a piece of blanched zucchini right in front of where he is guarding. He will usually come out and take at least a few bites to keep up strength. good luck with the next batch. =)
 

dbosman

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Losses of any fry are always disappointing, but normal.
Moving the BN fry stressed some of them. Some of them were probably going to die. Life that spawns large numbers of young do so to insure some survive.
 

Lillyan

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I'm pretty sure it's natural/normal to loose a few fry during grow out, same thing happens to all sorts of other fishes.
 
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