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  1. #61
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    Rick,

    Just let it go. You are not going to be able to educate this person. His mind is set and believe what he wants to believe. Some people are happy with what they have. Just hope that not a lot of money was spent on something like this.

    http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...nbowdiscus.jpg

    There are always going to be those who prefer discus looking like that..





  2. #62
    Member TNTDiscus's Avatar
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    True but I tend to look over clown loaches cause I don't personally like them. The others in a way yes they live in the same rivers just in different parts.



  3. #63
    Member TNTDiscus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reptileguy2727 View Post
    That is my point right there. The discus in my avatar is a beautiful fish. I do not care if it fits the arbitrary, made up description that someone else decided discus should be. It is a beautiful animal and that is why I hand picked it from the wholesaler. Many people have felt the same way over the years (in the shop where it was in the display tank and people on forums seeing it as my avatar) and that is why we were able to sell it for $125 at the shop. The fact that the people who liked it haven't been told to like certain traits in discus and look down on others allowed those people to enjoy that fish. I still think it is the most beautiful discus I have seen. Yes, the high end discus are also amazingly beautiful and stunning, but I am glad to say that I can still appreciate and enjoy the 'lower quality' discus that are out there.

    Many if not most centralized filtration systems utilize UV sterilizers so that it is impossible for water in one tank to get to another without going through the UV. Very few pathogens can infect healthy, unstressed fish. You can expose them to pathogens all day long and they won't get sick. Stress them and no matter how sterile your procedures are they WILL come down with something.

    I personally do not agree with sterilizing everything. Things have immune systems. It doesn't matter if the net was just in a tank with ich, it is not going to spread ich unless the other fish are stressed. I am not saying I would do this knowingly or suggest it, just that it is not this evil that if there is ich around fish will get it.

    That markup is not accurate. I work at a local shop and ran it in the past. That may be the ideal, but depending on what type of fish it is, what we have to pay, what the demand is, etc. that can vary dramatically. We fed discus 3-4 times daily. This may not be the extreme that some breeders go to, but again they were thriving. I don't know why a shop wouldn't feed on Sunday. Perhaps you are referring to any day they happen to be closed (which may or may not be Sunday) but even then many if not most shops still have someone come in to feed. I think most local shops take better care than the homes most fish go in to. So the fact that a local shop may not match the care a breeder may provide doesn't really say anything to me. If anything these fish need to get ready for home care, which is likely not to match that of breeders.

    That is the opposite if Biology. If an animal is never exposed to pathogens it doesn't develop a strong immune system. There have been studies showing that the younger children were when they started working in the barn the less likely they were to have allergies or asthma. Another study showed that children who are pampered are much less capable of handling stressful situations as adults than people who did have stress as a child. Yes, I will raise my children under the idea that it is okay to be exposed to germs and that sometimes the other team wins and you lose. I think children are a good analogy to this. Which is hardier: the yuppy kid who is pampered, is sheltered, never gets to play in the dirt, has to wash his hands after every time he touches anything, or the kid who drinks from the garden hose after exploring in the woods all morning and who does have to deal with real life let downs?
    Omg you sold that stunted fish to people for $125. Where is your ethics.



  4. #64
    Not enough tanks, space, or time reptileguy2727's Avatar
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    Where 'are' your ethics?

    There is nothing unethical about selling that fish. Everyone who had not been brainwashed in to looking down on it because it wasn't shaped exactly how some guy decided a discus should be shaped was able to enjoy it, how evil. I am still proud to say I can still enjoy such an 'ugly' fish. Just typing that makes me laugh.

    Anyways. I will never convince any of you to enjoy 'inferior' discus. You will never convince me that selecting for things other than health/hardiness will not reduce health/hardiness or that one particular shape is superior to another. The OP hates all this bickering.

    To anyone getting in to discus: read from many sources. Learn from many people, find discus you like and enjoy, and good luck.

    And yes, I will raise my kids under the idea that germs are not evil and sometimes the other team wins and you lose.
    75: Planted fancy goldfish
    Owner: Aquarium Maintenance and Pet Care company
    Owner: Web Design companyBriansAquariumCare.com: Lots of Informative Articles on Fish care



  5. #65
    Junior Member yss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by platytudes View Post
    It's a beautiful tank, but it's not a biotope, clown loaches and discus do not come from the same geographical region...although it seems like the fish (cories, GBR, rummynoses, Geos, etc.) were put together because of having compatible water chemistry requirements, for the most part. Warm, acidic water. Although clown loaches come from a highly oxygenated environment and discus come from stiller waters, those large clowns do look big and healthy.

    It's hard to tell on these larger tanks, but it seems kind of overstocked to me...though it looks lovely.

    Do the cories manage to escape the rams and Geos aggression? Cories don't usually get the concept of territories and tend to wander into bottom dwelling cichlids' caves...it looks like your fish (and tank, for that matter) are mature enough, I imagine that you've had them together a while.
    Right. Not a biotope. As you said, my loaches are huge and seem quite comfortable in my tank. I do a lot of water changes because of stocking level. I do about two 75% water changes a week. I think I can do more, but that's what I do. Corys seem fine. I don't think there's any agression from the geos (altifrons) and can't see any from the rams either. But I have over 60 corys, so any agression from the rams can be spread out. Geos are gentle giants.

    Thanks for the compliments on the tank. What I do works for me and my fish.



  6. #66
    Member TNTDiscus's Avatar
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    Dude I'm not brainwashed. I have studied and raised enough discus to know an eye to body ratio whether we are talking domestics or wilds (though wilds tend to have a bit bigger eye) to know when a fish has had proper growth. And pigeons (and yes they are the same because the pigeon strain was developed in asia) tend to have a smaller eye than even most domestics. I'm not brainwashed man it's just years of experience. Fish are the same as any animal if they are not provided the correct care they can be stunted or develop issues that will show up later that will shorten their lifespan. It's not a THIS IS HOW A DISCUS MUST LOOK TO BE PERFECT attitude..its a this fish has not been provided the proper care to grow to its potential. It's a pretty colored fish. And perhaps in the correct care it may have grown to it's potential. But I'm sorry it did not.



  7. #67
    you are hypnotized! LOL livebearerfreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reptileguy2727 View Post
    As far as water changes are concerned the same is true for any species we keep in aquariums, not just discus. All the fish we keep in aquariums get a constant water change in nature that can only be matched in captivity by a constant water change system, something very few aquarists do.

    um mother natures version of water changes in each lake differs from one another, discus come from a well clean river er lake ( forgot which one ) and as so the water is changed in the way mother nature see fits. now compared to what your saying, w/c once a week, is nothing compared to thousands if not millions of water change mother nature does out inthe wild. true discus breeders change there water atleast 3 times a week if not more, well the ones that i know of do.... and they have great stocks! heck i gotta talk to hans cause i may see if i can get a breeding pair just for my 45 tall!! and if i get the discus, ill report daily on a thread i will make on how much water change i do everyday and provide pics. discus need atleast 3x a week water change, adults i think can go 2 times a week MAYBE 3 times if you wanted but no lower then 2xs a week. juvis are more pickier then adults are ( just like most delicate frys )

    I think that discus breeding is proof enough that the water change schedule is at least adequate. More is always better, but I do not think that in every case they have to be more than weekly.


    breeding and actually rearing frys are two differnt things like another member mentioned. so yes with juvis you need to do 3x atlesast a week as they are delicate

    I also do not look at nature as ideal. It is not ideal, so things being similar to or different from what they would be in nature does not make them more or less better.

    no we dont compare to nature, nature outbeats us for the best species of fish and takes great care of its species....

    Yes, discus being round is a natural trait, but there is variation. And deciding that one extreme of that natural variation is better or worse than the other is a human decision that was made. If some discus are not as tall and round but people still like them and they are still healthy it should not matter and does not matter to me personally. As long as they are healthy and people enjoy them it is okay in my opinion not going to even comment on this one.....
    there.
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    have 30 tanks, onces set up now are four 20G one 20L one 10. but have tanks from 5 gallons up to four 55s



  8. #68
    you are hypnotized! LOL livebearerfreak's Avatar
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    i dont even raise discus and yet i know quite a few things about them......... right NOW i am not ready to raise them, some choose to actually learn and study before jumping into raising species that are delicate... anyways i am done with this thread........

    LBF out.
    help save monster aquaria network! sign the petition please! http://support.monsterfishkeepers.com/
    have 30 tanks, onces set up now are four 20G one 20L one 10. but have tanks from 5 gallons up to four 55s



  9. #69
    Discus Breeder nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    There is everything unethical about selling that fish, just as there is selling a puppy pre-disposed (and diagnosed) to hip disorders. Whats even more unethical is your bad advise your giving your customers. All I can say is caveat emptor when entering your shop.

    As for UV sterilization, most fish stores do not have them, those few that do have them set a such a flow rate they barely inhibit algea growth, let alone any level of protection against bacteria and parasites. Your flipant response to the use of a net in a diseased tank without sterilization speaks volumes.

    There is a difference between enjoying a discus that may have some aesthetical properties that deviate from what is accpeted as "Ideal" and those that could have been avoided with proper care like stunted and malnourished, such as the discus in the posted photograph.

    As for your comment about the fact that any fish will recieve better care at the fish store than they will after they are purchased, it doesn't help matters any when they are given bad advice as to the proper care from the get go.
    Last edited by nc0gnet0; 01-03-2012 at 9:13 PM.



  10. #70
    Discus Breeder nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Rick,

    Just let it go. You are not going to be able to educate this person. His mind is set and believe what he wants to believe. Some people are happy with what they have. Just hope that not a lot of money was spent on something like this.

    http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...nbowdiscus.jpg

    There are always going to be those who prefer discus looking like that..
    I knew before I ever posted to this thread that reptileguy would never change his mind or become educated. It's not about that. He is, after all, just out to make a quick buck. It's about not letting his opinions go unchallenged for those people that might be reading this thread and trying to make an informed decision on what to buy and how to care for discus.



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