Hello folks! Need some advice on starting up in the hobby.

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Neo Sithlord

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Mar 20, 2004
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Well to make a long story short a month ago I decided I wanted to get a betta and went to Wal Mart and dropped afew bucks on a small bowl and fish. So uhm now I have a fish near death with little hope of recovery and a real good understanding of where I went wrong in the whole process. Now I want to do this right,but before I go through the whole process of starting out a tank and applying what I've learned. I have afew questions and hopefully you guys can help me out. Where I went wrong this past month is pretty clear to me now ,I didn't take the time to compleatly figure out what I had to do to start out a tank before I was already ancle deep in it. So here's where I sit at the moment. I have one retired ten gallon tank that I figure I can at least use in the future to treat any problems such as illness or keeping new fish in before adding them to the main tank and a new 29 gallon tank that's yet to be filled and started out. I've read into the fishless cycling of a new tank with ammonia and think this is the best way to go about starting my tank out via the opinion here and the stress cycling a tank with fish can create. What I need to know is, do I need a culture of the bactiria to get the cycle going or will the tank devolope on it's own if I just start the cycle? I'm sure I could find a pet store in my area that I could get something to jump start the cycle with, but if I don't have to I figure I can save a drive since the stores I concider reputable aren't in my home town. Also is there any software out there that can help me plot out my tank chemistry while I establish it? Free ware would be ideal but if you think it's worth paying for that's fine. Once the tank has cycled compleatly how many fish do you think I should put in? I want to go with a heated tank arround 78 degrees so I can have a betta in there and tropical fish. Pretty much, I like colorfull fish, but I'm not sure if bettas are a good fish to center my attention on as an amature. Let's just say I'd like to have a betta in the mix unless the general opinion is to start out else where with the tank. You guys really have this down and I value any opinions you guys have on what I should start with. Last of all I'd like to use some of the stuff from my old tank, but my betta had fin rot and ich. I can't see any reason to buy new decorations and equipment that is compatable with the new tank if I alreay have it. So should I sanatize it before putting it in the new tank? I'm sure I'll have to, but is there a better way then boiling them? Not sure they'll hold up to high temps is all.
Thanks for bearing with me folks I'm new at this but I'd love to keep an aqaurium.
-Neo Sithlord
 
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daveedka

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Jan 30, 2004
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Glad you are here, and I hope things go better for you in the future. I'll answer what questions I can and leave the rewt for more knowledgeable folks.

Once the tank has cycled compleatly how many fish do you think I should put in? I want to go with a heated tank arround 78 degrees so I can have a betta in there and tropical fish.
There are several rules of thumb to put you in the ballpark, the big thing to remember is that once you are in the ballpark, there are still alot of factors that effect how many fish. A starting point would be 1" of fish per gallon (this really only applies to thin bodied fish like tetra's and Danios) I usually go with 3gallons per inch on bigger bodied fish, but I'm an oscar guy.
Filtration, maintenance, tank dimensions, surface area, and fish temperment all play a factor, if you have abeatta, they do fine in a non-aggressive community tank, but you need to be very picky about what tye of community fish are in with your beatta. Try this forum for more experience beatta people http://beautifulbettas.com/forum/

do I need a culture of the bactiria to get the cycle going or will the tank devolope on it's own if I just start the cycle?
Yes you will need to introduce bacteria somehow. If you don't want to use something out of your existing beatta tank, you will need to get some media, decoration, gravel, or something from an estabilished tank, you can also add a plant or two which will have bacteria on them. Bio-spira is often reccomended as store bought bacteria, I have never used it, but I have read that it is the only product of this type that works, and even it isn't 100%once you add bacteria then you can feed ammonia, and give the bacteria time to expand and istabilish itself. The sticky on cycling will explain how to know when bacteria is estabilished.

So should I sanatize it before putting it in the new tank? I'm sure I'll have to, but is there a better way then boiling them? Not sure they'll hold up to high temps is all.
I personally would sanitise them. This really isn't that difficult to do outside of your aquarium. I use chlorine, it kills everything, it usually rinses off pretty well, and there are roughly 1,000,000 (give or take 2) products out there that will neutralize chlorine if there is some left when you put the stuff in the new tank, The only thing you need to worry about is color fading, but most platic items will hold there color in a diluted bleach bath, a very stiff salt water solution will also kill ich, I would warm the salt water up to as hot as I could without damaging the item you are cleaning, and then soak in it for a while. A little salt residue won't hurt anything in your tank.

Thanks for bearing with me folks I'm new at this but I'd love to keep an aqaurium.
We were all new at one time, I just wish I'd had the information then that is available now, the fact that you are here puts you ahead of the curve. My best suggestion is to read every thread you can, chase the links that look interesting, and never quit learning. Before I found this website, I was pretty confident in my knowledge of aquariums, It didn't take very long here to realize how little I actually knew.
 

Hound

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Ok, just to get it out of the way. Very hot tap water should be enough to clean off your old ornamentation you plan to reuse. If you aren't comfortable with that water that is about 170f should kill the harmful bacteria and such that it would hit. The only thing I can think about keeping a betta would be that is should be a loner. Also you shouldn't keep any gourami or other fish that the betta might see as being the same kind of fish. They should be fine with most cory species and I've seen them kept with different tetra before. Check your LFS in your area and then come back to this sight and check the species profiles. Also check species profiles from other sights. If you decide against betta you can look into gourami, rams, and cichlids as your tank highlight. Another option would be guppies. At least you know to take your time and enjoy yourself on the way. A stressful hobby isn't really a hobby imho.

Ack forgot to mention. No you don't actually need to add bacteria to your new tank, but if you do it can greatly speed up your cycle. The bacteria that you need to have present in your tank is generally floating around in the air waiting to land somewhere. Um, unless you happen to live in a sterile environment.
 
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daveedka

Purple is the color of Royalty
Jan 30, 2004
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No you don't actually need to add bacteria to your new tank, but if you do it can greatly speed up your cycle. The bacteria that you need to have present in your tank is generally floating around in the air waiting to land somewhere. Um, unless you happen to live in a sterile environment.
This Quote not only suprised me but caused me to do some resaerch today, From what I have been able to find on the fishless cycle information, you may be able to do a cycle without adding a bacteria source, but it will be very slow to start. I am not sure if it's actually floating around in the air but that may be the case???? there seems to be a general consesus that it get's to your tank somehow. Sorry if I mis-informed you. I have always been told that a cycle will not start without some type of bacteria being added. And have always been under the impression that with fishy cycling the fish brought the bacteria with it.
Good luck!
 
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OrionGirl

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The bacteria come in your water. Even the best treatment plants will contain some of these bacteria--they are non-toxic, so there's no need to remove them. The chlorine treatments are usually adequate to reduce the population below being able to support a serious waste load, but they are there. Cycling without any seed (either Bio-Spira or from an established tank) won't take considerably longer than cycling with a small seed.
 

daveedka

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Jan 30, 2004
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Thanks O.G. and Tando Murphy, unfortunately I have time, so I am just going to start feeding ammonia and see how it works, under normal circumstances, I wouldn't want to wait. So I would go with media from elsewhere.
 

Neo Sithlord

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Well I only know one person that kept fish unfortunately I haven't spoken to him in afew years. I suppose I can try that Bio spira stuff and if I can find a really good LFS (thanks for clearing the acronym up had me wondering) I hopefully can talk them out of something to jump start the tank like a filter or buying a tank decoration.
Well I have my water conditioning right now so I figure by monday I can go store shopping to see what I can find out there. I might decide to go with a fish cycle yet as the impulse is nipping at me to add fish but I'm fighting it.
Thanks for the info on the betta I keep getting mixed info on weather or not they can be kept in a comunity tank. I'm most likely going to put one in the mix so knowing not to get fish the betta can nip or vise versa will help out. My first fish just went to the big toilet bowl in the sky today after going through hell so I'm going forward slow this time. So my stress releif hobby doesn't stress me out again lol.
Thanks again folks,
-Neo Sithlord
 

daveedka

Purple is the color of Royalty
Jan 30, 2004
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Well I have my water conditioning right now so I figure by monday I can go store shopping to see what I can find out there. I might decide to go with a fish cycle yet as the impulse is nipping at me to add fish but I'm fighting it.
Keep fighting the impulse, I am going through the same fight right now, but know from experience that it is best to force patience. It was all I could do to keep from buying a 3/4 inch firemouth for my new 115 yesterday. but fortunatly the tank is still devoid of wildlife.
 

jaxjags64109

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get some throw-away fish like white clouds or zebra danios. Cheap, easy, and when your water parameters are good, flush 'em and get the cool fish you want.
I find this advice to be appalling. There are no such things as "throw-away fish." All fish deserve to be treated as well as we can manage. Once we buy them we are responsible for/to them. If you should choose to buy some hardy inexpensive fish to cycle your tank that is your decision but to suggest that someone "flush 'em" is just plain irresponsible fish keeping and no one who enjoys this hobby should condone this. I'm new to the hobby and hope I don't sound too indignant but this statement caused me to cringe and I felt compelled to respond.
 

jaxjags64109

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You are correct that we should have no fear of prosecution for stating our opinions. Of course persecution is another matter entirely. I do respect your right to express your opinion while retaining my right to be appalled at using a public forum to express that opinion.
 
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