10 gallon self-contained paludarium

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codestar

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May 9, 2012
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Hello everyone, found this site today, hoping for some advice.

I've got a small fish tank, about 10 gallons, maybe 15? Is this too small?
Anyway, I want to make a self contained/sustained paludarium out of it.

I know the very basics... rock layer, moss layer, dirt, plants. However, I'm not sure about the best way to make a small pond, and what species of plants and animals to use.

I was thinking some grasses, a few flowers, grasshoppers, etc.. In the pond, I'd like a fish or two.

I'd like to keep it closed the majority of time, but I figure I'll have to interfere sometimes, maybe for population control of insects or something? Idk.

I'd like insects that the fish will feed on, and something that helps keep all the water in the environment clean w/o using a pump & filter.. but I may add those anyway, and make a small waterfall.

Anyway, how would you do this? I greatly appreciate your help.
Cody
 

SubRosa

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The difficulty in maintaining a closed system is inversely and exponentially proportional to the size of the system. What that means is that if you want to run a closed system the size of, oh say, the Earth, it can run itself pretty easily for a long time with no outside interference. Doing so with a 10 gal system is a lot more trouble. Forget the "self sustaining" crap, and export nutrients through water changes. Your livestock will thank you!
 

RisiganL.

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It is almost impossible to have a COMPLETELY self sustaining tank, but a nearly self-sustaining tank is possible. A heavily planted walstad-type plants with ostracods, daphnia, planaria, gammerus and a few tiny fish (such as a couple of male endlers or some least killifish) would be pretty darn close to self sustaining.
 

BruinsBro1997

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I wouldn't even try to attempt a self-sustaining tank, because usually it ends up being a heavily planted, poorly maintained tank. It's nearly impossible to keep a self-sustaining tank, perhaps impossible entirely. You can do something nice with a paladarium without it being self-sustaining still :)


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platytudes

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Doing something like this is incredibly hard, and for what? It's certainly not going to be easier than actually maintaining it. This is like bonsai vs. houseplants. One takes years of practice and study, the other anyone can do with a little effort. A regular 10-15 gallon paludarium is small, and hard enough as it is because of the limited surface area, but doable.

I suppose if you were doing a science experiment, it might be worthwhile to attempt this (since it would be for a grade) but otherwise...no. These silly little things cost a fortune for what they are:
http://www.eco-sphere.com/
That should tell you something...which is that these aren't as easy as they may seem to produce and keep looking clean.

"I was thinking some grasses, a few flowers, grasshoppers, etc.. In the pond, I'd like a fish or two."

Hmm? Are we talking about a pond or a 10 gallon tank? There are no aquatic grasses and flowers that I know of that can live in a 10 gallon tank. Definitely no fish and grasshoppers that can live together in a 10 gallon tank (I think you mean crickets). No fish small enough to fit in a 10 gallon tank has a mouth big enough to eat crickets.

So, very fanciful idea...but it just isn't going to work, I'm afraid, unless you are willing to settle for something like this:
http://www.gizmag.com/closed-ecosystems/13931/picture/109237/

Basically plants and dirt, with maybe a few inverts. Nothing colorful or pretty, but kind of interesting in a mucking about, studying pond water kind of way. Fascinating if you had a microscope, I'm sure...but not exactly a display piece.



 
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RisiganL.

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I think I add something to my post, in a tank as small as a 10 gallon this is near impossible. In a larger tank you can have a nearly self sustaining tank, but you would need to intervene once in a while.
 

codestar

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May 9, 2012
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OK, Thanks guys, I'll probably keep up with the 'upkeep' then. What kinds of organisms should I use? What's a good list of possibilities? In the 10 gallon tank, I want it to be maybe 30-35% water, the rest land. Any ideas? Crickets, earthworms, any possible fish? Planaria?

And what kind of plants?
 
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platytudes

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There aren't that many paludarium building sites on the web, but there are a few, and more all the time. Here's one, for example:
http://www.victri.net/tanks/vivarium_2005-06-20.html

As you can see, it's not exactly simple. Just getting the equipment and building the false bottom is a lot of work in itself if you have never done it before. You definitely need to read a lot in order to get a feel for what you're doing, start by looking at some forums such as this one: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/paludariums/

Stocking is the most fun to think about, but there is a lot of work that needs to be done in between! I'd probably suggest some fire bellied toads or newts. Nix the ideas of crickets, earthworms, etc...just not going to work. I really doubt any fish will work either. 30-35% water is just 3 gallons of water, what fish do you suppose could live in that much water? Not really any. Most any sort of creature that is going to appreciate the land part of your paludarium, is likely going to eat any other creature...newts will eat feeder guppies (which arguably should have more than 3 gallons of water).

Figure out the central creature you want to base your environment on, and go from there.
 

codestar

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May 9, 2012
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Thanks guys, I've given this some more thought and research.. Will probably make a new thread tomorrow. Really appreciate it!
 

fshfanatic

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T Forget the "self sustaining" crap, and export nutrients through water changes. Your livestock will thank you!
Dont you mean "import"
 
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