Unexplained Die-Off

**kiddevo** · 08-10-2012, 8:20 PM

Two days ago I did a real thorough vacuuming of my gravel when I did a 25% water change on my 20 gallon (tall). I never stir it up that much. Inside the tank are/were 2 mollies, a platy and three cories. Today I noticed that one of the platies was belly up, and one of the cory's had one fin in the grave, he is probably not going to make it either. I treated the water for chllorine as I usually do when I changed using Nutrafin Aqua plus. Right now I have usual readings 0/0/20 with the API liquid kit.

Should I hit the tank with some more Nutrafin to be safe? Could really stirring up the gravel have caused some issues? The only other thing I can think of is that this tank uses an auto feeder that I left on since vacation, if anything they are getting too little food, but I doubt that would cause two to kick the bucket on the same day, and right after a water change... Strange. Any thoughts?

**digitalphrage** · 08-10-2012, 8:28 PM

I'm pretty sure Baby Jesus has made his way around the world and raptured all the good fish, leaving behind the sinful ones.

**BettaFishMommy** · 08-10-2012, 8:38 PM

Aqua Plus is useless as dechlorinator if your local water supply is treated with chloramines. aquaplus will not convert the ammonia left over after the breaking of the ammonia/chlorine bond that is chloramine.

call your local water authority/supplier. often people think that their water is treated with chlorine when it is in fact treated with chloramine.

get Prime,. by SeaChem. it is IMO the best dechlorinator out there. it will detoxify ammonia and nitrite, and i personally will never use any other dechlorinator in my tanks.

if your gravel was not cleaned in a long time, you could have disturbed it too much at once. when a tank is overdue for maintenance, it is always a good idea to do it a bit at a time, because the fish are used to the bad conditions and giving them better water quality all of a sudden can shock them. 'old tank syndrome' is what i'm talking about here.

was the auto feeder working properly all the time? or could it have dumped a bunch of food in the tank via a malfunction (they are known to do that on occasion) while you were on vacation? this could have resulted in an ammonia spike that the fish are residually affected by.

also check your API test kit. these things do expire, and there is no guarantee that tests will be accurate on an expired test. the black letters across the top of the test bottles, just below the neck, will tell you the date of manufacture, and usually most tests are good for a max of three years after that printed date. i personally replace my API kit before the expiry, to ensure it is giving me the most accurate results.

**kiddevo** · 08-10-2012, 8:42 PM

Thanks... I am pretty good on my WCs in terms of frequency just dont "get up in there" with the vacuum like I did this time. So you may be right.

The kit is working.... trust me I know.... A filter accidentally became unplugged on my Goldfish tank and NH3 was through the roof.

FYI my bottle of aqua plus states "removes chlorine and chloramine". I have a big bottle that I have been using for a while, when it runs out I may drink the prime flavored Kool-Aid

**BettaFishMommy** · 08-10-2012, 8:52 PM

it states it removes chloramine, but what it is only doing is neutralizing the chlorine left over after it breaks the bond between the chlorine and the ammonia that is chloramine. it leaves the ammonia behind, without doing anything to neutralize/detoxify it.

trust me, i know all about aquaplus. i used to use it. my local water is treated with chloramines. i was the same as you, thinking that is was doing the job of keeping my fish safe. it wasn't.

Prime will convert the remaining ammonia after the chloramine bond is broken. it converts it to ammonium, which is not toxic to fish like ammonia is.

**kiddevo** · 08-10-2012, 9:08 PM

Originally Posted by BettaFishMommy

it states it removes chloramine, but what it is only doing is neutralizing the chlorine left over after it breaks the bond between the chlorine and the ammonia that is chloramine. it leaves the ammonia behind, without doing anything to neutralize/detoxify it.

trust me, i know all about aquaplus. i used to use it. my local water is treated with chloramines. i was the same as you, thinking that is was doing the job of keeping my fish safe. it wasn't.

Prime will convert the remaining ammonia after the chloramine bond is broken. it converts it to ammonium, which is not toxic to fish like ammonia is.

Good to know. The Prime Kool Aid is looking better and better.... Because it is so strong, do you add the prime:

- to the tank just before refilling
- to the tank right after refilling
- Do you use buckets and just treat the water you are adding?

On a side note, I pick up ammonia in my tap, but the tanks usually deal with it in 1-2 days. 0.25ppm in the tank goes to yellow in about a day. I dont think it was ammonia, as I have been using this for a while. I think you were onto something with me stirring something up..

**BettaFishMommy** · 08-10-2012, 10:27 PM

when i'm refilling tanks during a water change, i use 2 gallon rectangular tubs that fit in my sink. fill up tub with water that is temperature matched to the tank's water, and then add a bit of Prime to each 2 gallon tub when i fill it, and give the tub a little swirl before adding that tub's water to the tank. i overdose Prime 'a tad' due to high chloramines in my local water (i can easily smell the chloramine coming out of the tap, yuck). better to waste a little bit of Prime than worry i haven't used enough to deal with the chloramine. i'd use bigger containers than just 2 gallons to refill my tanks, but lifting anything over 20 odd pounds above my shoulder is extremely difficult. due to high chloramines, and my overprotectiveness of my fish, i don't use a python hose system at all.

**rastoma** · 08-11-2012, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by kiddevo

I have a big bottle that I have been using for a while, when it runs out I may drink the prime flavored Kool-Aid

I doubt the Aquaplus is not doing it's job since I'm assuming that you haven't had die offs before or on a regular basis, or else you would have mentioned it.

It could have been stress, water temp, or something that got released when stirring up the gravel.

I'm guessing since you said you have a big bottle of the Aquaplus that you still have a lot left. So I wouldn't throw out the Aquaplus, but definitely get Prime when you run out. Or better yet, get it now and use both but just use half the amount of Prime as needed and that way you won't be wasting either product too much, but will still be getting a little extra protection.

I used to only use Tetra products (for water conditioning) but thought Prime was just popular because of marketing or whatever. But it's just about all I use now. I've seen a noticeable difference in the health of my fish and tanks can handle more fish than before just because of using Prime (not that I try to overstock but if one of the tanks have babies (guppies usually) and I can't get them moved for awhile, the extra load has no negative impact like I have experienced before using Prime).

**petluvr** · 08-11-2012, 12:24 AM

It has always been my understanding that anerobic pockets being released during vacuuming present no danger unless they are pick up and impelled into the water column, if the pockets are disturbed and come to the surface they simply gas off upon reaching the surface.

**kiddevo** · 08-11-2012, 9:49 AM

It seems like the answer to every post on here is "switch to Prime". What cut of the sales do you guys get?

I may make the switch. @Rastoma yeah no die offs before, but like I said this was the first time I went to town with the gravel vac. Now the question... Next WC, stir the gravel up or be gentle?