Need Ideas for New Tank!

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Jarred1

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Jan 6, 2013
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Hello,

This is my first post to this website. I have kept fish for at least 14 years. I have fresh water tank for the first 11 years. I had cichlids in a 20 high a year before I got into salt water tanks. Three years ago I switched to reef tanks. I got good at reef keeping and now I want to go back to fresh water. I just bought a used 90 gallon tank and I plan on setting it up with cichlids instead of saltwater.

This time I would like to do it properly and I'm not sure how different the system setup for fresh water is from salt water. I have a small sump with some bio-balls and a mag drive 7 for a return. For lights I have a wave point 4x54w t5ho light. I know it is too much for this tank and would like to go with a few simple LED strips.

The stuff I am not sure about is the kinds of rocks and substrate I can use. Will I need more power heads? Can I put live plants in the tank with them?

If you have any other questions or comments please post them!

Jarred
 

Coler

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Jan 30, 2007
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Welcome to the site :)

Just curious as to what cichlids you kept in the 20 high ?

Anyway, almost everything of what you're asking is influenced by what cichlids you propose to keep. An African Rift Lake set-up (my recommendation but I'm biased towards them) will be quite different in important ways to, for instance, a set-up for a couple of large Central/South Americans, which will differ from an Angelfish or Discus tank.

Rocks, substrate, live plants, lights - all depends on the species being kept.

Filtration - sump is always a great idea. What size is it ? I generally recommend two forms of mechanical filtration - so perhaps consider adding a large cannister.

Powerhead - some cichlids like flow, some arn't so fond of it, or it might be useful for pushing waste towards a pick up point.

Perhaps the first question to answer is whether you prefer to keep many fish, or one/two/three large fish with some bottom dwellers.

Also important to consider - is a lush, planted tank important to you ? This would heavily influence/limit your choices.

Do you want a very bright colourful display - that would point towards Lake Malawi species, which are quite close in many ways to the saltwater fish you've been keeping.

Basically, decide on species, and that will determine everything else. Again, welcome to the site.
 

Jarred1

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Jan 6, 2013
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I had Lake malawi cichlids in the 20 high they were very tiny and soon went back to the fish store.

I would like to have a few 2 or so bigger colorful fish and a few types of shoaling/schooling fish. I'm not sure if that will even be posible because the bigger fish would eat the smaller ones.

I like the look of slate rock and drift wood but I can't seem to find any builds of tanks in this forum.

I am not sure of the size of the sump I currently own but I can get a larger one if need be. It seems to be a 10g sump.

I do like the look of the malawi species but I am not sure where I can get the really nice ones like I see on this board.
 

Coler

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Malawis in a 20 high would certainly not be sustainable for any length of time.

As regards your preferences, for 2 or so bigger cichlids with some shoaling/schooling fish, this says to me that you could consider :-

- Angels - but you can have a lot more than 2. I don't know if they meet your size preference
- Discus - again a decent sized group rather than 2. Very colourful when good quality specimens are kept well.

Going down the road of slighly larger cichlids :-

- Rainbow Cichlids (Herotilapia multispinosa)
- 'Geos' e.g. Gymnogeophagus gymnogenys

Perhaps a pair of each, I'm not entirely sure how they would mix, and then the school of smaller fish.


I think you would really like Hypsophrys nicaraguensis ('Macaw'/'Nic' Cichlids) - perhaps a pair of these as the cichlid component in the tank. They hit 9 - 10 inches and are very colourful. They would be hard to get where I am - I don't know what your availability will be like.

Something which I think would again tick the box for you would be Gold Severum (Heros efasciatus). These are beautiful, get to 9 or 10 inches, and for a pair you'd usually use something like a 55G so in a 90 you're going to be fine with at least a pair. I'd like to think you could keep them with another pair of largish cichlids in the 90 - such as the Geo's. I think you would certainly be likely to succeed with these and some smaller cichlid species - e.g. rams, apistogramma.

As regards the schooling fish probably the best way to select them is on the basis of what will not fit in the largest mouth in the tank. You would therefore lean towards the larger tetras - I think emperor tetras would be really good, as would congo tetras. A large school of the latter looks really good.

On the sump, I'm not experienced with them so perhaps wait for other responses or post in Freshwater Equipment. However, 10G sounds small to me. Any cichlid species will be among the messier sort of fish and requires really solid mechanical filtration. In the absence of any other suggestions I would recommend to you a couple of really large external cannister filters. Look at the litres per hour flow rates, and work out what combination of two filters will rotate the water in the tank not less than 10 times an hour and that's what you need. Fluval, Eheim, other brands all have their support on this and other fora. For your tank I would find it hard not to go for a Fluval FX5 and a JBL Crystalprofi 1501e, which would give you ample filtration with lots of built in redundancy, and two high quality units.
 
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Star_Rider

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if you are considering a sump.. I always go for the largest I can fit under the tank. remember the sump can house all the equipment you would like to hide.. it can also be used for a FW refugium.
 

Jarred1

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Jan 6, 2013
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I figured out what fish I want. I want yellow labs, demasoni and hongi. I have to have a sump because the tank was already drilled.

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Coler

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Those are some nice fish. Labidochromis Caereulus and Demasoni is a recognised mix, and the colours look really spectacular especially in large groups of each, which your tank will certainly support.

One thing you should be aware of is that the Hongis are also a Labidochromis genus. There is a chance, although it is not necessarily statistically probable, that they will inter-breed. What mitigates against that possibility is that they don't look alike. What mitigates in favour is that they are the same genus. You can further reduce the possibility by keeping correct ratios of male to female in each grouping (i.e. 1 male to every 3 or 4 females) which makes it more probably that they will stick to their own.

Equally, some people will not be particularly concerned at the possibility of cross breeding anyway.

I would stress that plenty of people appear to have kept yellow labs and lab hongi and not had cross-breeding - again, keeping correct ratios of
male/females in larger groups helps - and it is probably more likely that a yellow lab will inter-breed with for instance Metriaclimia Estherae 'Red Zebra' do to similar colourations, so the mantra of 'don't have two species of the same genus in the tank if you want to avoid hybrids' is by no means a rule to live by. Personally I would be fine with yellow labs and lab hongi together.

To fill out your stocking, I would suggest a good group of some synodontis catfish - multipunctatus and petricola are both great. These also help with fry control - i.e. you would not put them in a breeder set-up - but bearing in mind that Malawis kept in good condition are like rabbits on viagra it can be desirable to keep your numbers under control in a show tank.

If you want another group of fish to consider for your tank, take a look at iodotropheus sperengae ('rusty cichlids'). If you can get good stock they are very pretty when mature, and they are also amongst the least aggressive malawi species and so in a group will do will in a tank with labs.

Finally as regards Demasoni, they are very aggressive little buggers particularly against conspecifics, so as a general rule you don't stock other blue fish with them (they are very hard on e.g. Pseudotropheus Socolofi for instance) and you keep a group of ideally 12 or more being very careful to have enough females in the group. Sexing them is hard - I would suggest either buying known males/females in a ratio of at least 1 male to 5 females, plus or minus, or starting out with a group of say 25 juveniles in your tank, sexing when possible, and removing as necessary so as to arrive at that kind of ratio in a group of 15 fish long term in the tank. This does mean you need to set up a return policy with your LFS or have another outlet for the spare males/females (the LFS should be happy to take them back for store credit).

I think in the long term, given great filtration and maintenance, something like this would be nice :-

15 Demasoni as per above
6 - 8 Yellow Labs (2 male the rest female)
6 - 8 Hongis (same ratio)
6 - 8 Rustys (same ratio)
7 Synodontis (male/female doesn't matter)

That said, some would say, and they might be right, that a malawi tank looks even more spectacular when there are just two or three 'primary colours' in the tank - in which case take out the rustys and increase the labs/hongis accordingly. Some of the nicest tanks I've seen even have just demasoni and labs. Again, basically aim at 15 demasoni and another 15 - 20 (subject to your own preferences on numbers) from the above species in groups of your preferences.

As regards the sump, I've never run one, but I think they are great. I agree with star-rider that you should pitch at the biggest sump you can manage in the cabinet, to get the most value out of it. I would still run a powerful cannister filter with that though. If you find you want to help in collecting waste you can add powerheads to direct flow to your taste - Mbuna are fine in a bit of current.

Finally for now, you can, despite rumours to the contrary, keep live plants with Mbuna. Java Fern, Crinium (onion), Anubias, should all be fine and do not require significant effort to flourish in the aquarium (I've done all of the above with africans and I most certainly do not have green fingers). Live plants in my view add a lot visually to a tank - not to say it should be predominantly green or anything - and also give a natural back up to your biofiltration, and assist in oxygenation.
 

Jarred1

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Jan 6, 2013
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Well I no longer want to go with demasoni, they sound like they could be way too much trouble. I wan to go with Pseudo. Saulosi. They are very similar in color to the demasoni. I know where I am going to get my fish from already, there is a fish farm about 3 hours north of where I live!

Now I need to figure out what kind of rock I want. I seen a tank with what I believe to be sand stone and it looked awesome. What are some other types of rocks people use?

Jarred
 

ROYWS3

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I'm not that well versed in African setups but I've seem them with "Texas Holey rock" and there seems to be many advantages. It's relatively lightweight, it's limestone (I believe) so it buffers pH and it's, well, holey to provide all the nooks and crannies Africans need
 

Coler

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You know that only male saulosi when they mature are coloured similar to demasoni right ? The females stay orange.
 
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