Canister filter, sponge filter questions

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AshK

Muffin MIX NAO
Jun 24, 2008
481
0
16
35
California, PA
My tank: 20 gallon high, played out sponge filter, medium planted, 13 boraras merah, 12+ dwarf emerald rasbora, cherry shrimp

My fish have been breeding, which is cool, but they will over populate the tank soon. I have no interest setting up breeding tanks or fry tanks or cultures. I'd like them to just keep breeding in this tank. Only a few fry make it to adulthood but that's ok. Regardless, I need to replace my old sponge filter anyway. And I'm thinking of putting my pressurized CO2 system on this tank. I only have experience with HOB and sponge filters, I prefer sponge filters.

So I've been looking into canister filters, which I understand offer superior product lifespan, filtration, media options, better for CO2...etc

Canister filter questions: Can canister filters stay on during a water change? Which specific models are low flow, suited for my tank? How does the flow compare to a AC 150, 100? Inline CO2, what is it and what to buy? Are fry and shrimp going to get sucked up (the fry can't swim for a few days after hatching)? Will the little microscopic things the fry/shrimp eat be affected? Would the canister interfere with water column fertilizer? Truly how often do you open them up and clean the media? Is this messy, does water spill out? Ive managed to break several AquaClear filters, will I break a canister, too? Since they are more heavy duty, and I like the fry, should I even bother with canister?

HOB questions: other brand recommendations than AC? I know, blasphemy but even with a prefilter and flow set to low i think it's too much. Also ugly, huge space behind tank needed, mine have clogged with moss. They are definitely amazing but not for this tank.

Sponge filter questions: brand recommendations with small footprint? Any other brands than hydro which are black? Anyone ever run a sponge with a power head? How'd that go, what did you use?

I'm basically leaning towards getting 2 sponge filters but also attracted to those fancy canisters. Thanks.
 

authmal

Pseudonovice
Aug 4, 2011
2,621
62
51
Phoenix, AZ
Can a canister stay on during a water change? Depends on how the intake is built, and how deep it draws from.

There aren't many for 20 gallon tanks. Toms Rapids, I think, is the only one that comes to mind. Canisters are going to have lower projected GPH ratings, but they tend to be more true ratings, through more crap.

Don't know about CO2 injection.

Infusoria and such? Other than being moved around differently, I doubt it would be impacted.

No different impact on fertilizer than your HOB, all things being equal. In other words, if you're running carbon (or any other media) in your HOB, and you run it in your canister, and the media impacts the efficacy of your fertilization regimen, the effects will be the same.

So far, I open up and clean my CF400UV every 2 months, but I've only had it for about 3. I had some issues with it at first, but tech support was very helpful. That said, when I started rinsing sponges, they were *filthy*, so it seems it's doing quite the good job.

How messy it is depends on your particular set up. I know I'm getting the hang of it with mine, and while messier than a HOB to clean, it's not horribly so, and it'll get better as I get more used to the routine with it, I'm sure.

If you can break a filter, you can break a filter.

I use an AC 20 sponge block, cut to allow the intake to fit into it to prevent stuff from swimming in. I'm sure if I crack it open right now, I'll still have 20 or 30 shrimp in there, though. They still manage to find their way in, somehow.

A prefilter (use an AC 20 sponge block, it's orders of magnitude better than most premade sponge prefilters, but if you can get a stainless steel mesh one, that might be a good alternative) will help prevent the filter from being clogged by moss. AC has the most versatile and effective HOBs on the market, it seems. The Fluval C series (basically upgraded AC, by the same parent company) is very nice and in some ways better. That said, it's not anywhere near as versatile.

Sponge filters are absolutely horrible for any kind of CO2 injection, because, by necessity, there are a ton of air bubbles to facilitate the off gassing of your CO2. I have an Ista Bio-Sponge filter, and it's small, black, and with a nice weight at the bottom.
 

AshK

Muffin MIX NAO
Jun 24, 2008
481
0
16
35
California, PA
Thanks for the excellent advice. My replies:

**I was hoping running a sponge filter with a power head would eliminate airstone and thus be better with CO2. Maybe someone can weigh in on this.**

If shrimp can get into your canister with a sponge prefilter, than I assume my worthless nonswimming fry are toast, as well as my microscopic food things. I dont care about the shrimplets as much as the fry (oh no she didn't! say the shrimp). Shrimp could over populate a slimy road ditch. However, the AC 20 sponge block, I think I am familiar with this, fairly large pores for a sponge? So maybe I could go with a finer pore and be okay. I have also seen full on sponge filters designed to attach to a canister intake, this might be my jam.

My follow up questions:

So when you clean your canister, do you disconnect the tubes and carry it to the sink/outside to open it up and monkey around in it? How heavy is this? How strong are these tube to canister connectors? I'm comparing to that flimsy AC intake/impeller thing just waiting to break. Do the tubes deteriorate over time a la vinyl air line? Do the tubes get nasty/smell (think python/syphon)? Did you notice a heat increase from the filter vs others?
 

authmal

Pseudonovice
Aug 4, 2011
2,621
62
51
Phoenix, AZ
Sponge filter with a powerhead is more of a prefilter scenario, from what I understand.

I don't know if fry or infusoria or whatever would get into the filter. Frankly, I think the shrimplets *try* to get in there, and work their way in through the pores or something. Drives me nuts. If the pores are too fine, you'll find yourself with suction issues, as your prefilter melds to the intake and prevents flow. It's pretty crappy when that happens.

I release the suction (the step I've forgotten to do and would have prevented at least some of the mess) and remove the top, leaving the top connected to the tubes. How heavy depends on the canister. I'd imagine one for a 20 gallon tank isn't going to hold much water volume, so it should be relatively light, under 10 pounds or so. I'd imagine the vinyl tubing will eventually deteriorate, but being much thicker than airline tubing, it should last much longer before it's noticeable. I'll probably think of replacing mine in a year or two. My LFS actually has black vinyl tubing for not much per foot, so I *may* replace the tubing sooner, but I doubt it. I did not notice a temperature increase. That said, I was already working on slowly increasing my tank temperature (in preparation for getting rams) when I set it up, so any increase could have been hidden in that. I think the smell issue comes from water being in there, and sitting for a while. Since the water in the canister is almost always flowing, I doubt you'd find a noticeable odor that's any different from your tank in general.
 
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