Introduction and help please - cycled 10g but can't keep a Betta alive

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

Spring

Registered Member
May 26, 2013
2
0
0
Hello - nice to read some of your informative posts. We moved from Montreal to Vancouver two years ago and I can't keep a Betta alive here (10 g tank). I've had several before in 3.5 g tanks in Montreal - other tanks in montreal with African Cyclids - also no problem. Decided I wanted to start with one Betta and see if I still want to do the work associated with having fish. Started with a 3.5 g bow tank but didn't like it and had room for 10g on my desk - for a desk buddy, so I traded the 3.5 for the standard 10g style tank - with filter and heater set at 80. Thin layer of fine white aquarium sand bought from fish only pet store (informed staff). A few thin long leafed live plants. 4"x4"x4" square Black glass vase on it's side as a 'cave'. One upside down tall/thin never used beer glass with flat rock on top as a resting
zone (the bettas loved that for resting near the surface or sleeping at night). Black rocks are from petsmart.

I've now killed 3 bettas - first one lived 1 1/2 months - next one 4 weeks - last one 3 days :(
First Betta I was doing water changes of 50% once or twice a week and checking water constantly - it was definitely cycled. Once cycled I was doing 25-30% water change once a week and testing the water - all good - PH a little low. Each fish behaved the same way for a week or so before dying - hanging out in a more or less vertical position and hiding behind the filter - more and more until dying. Each was very active - seem happy to be out of a cup (fish were from Petsmart) and into a 10g tank - moved them slowly over an hour floating their cup in the 10g tank - adding a bit of the aquarium water to the Betta cup every 5 minutes - let them loose after an hour. All well for 3 weeks for the first one - robust - swimming all over - swimming over to me to get food - following my finger along the tank - eating well (betta flakes and betta pellets - seemed to always spit out pellets although better if I crushed them - LOVED the dried bloodworms mixed in with the Betta flakes).

Although the water checks out in all the Petsmart water checks (I kept taking in samples), I'm wondering if there is something else in our water that the Betta can only tolerate for a few weeks. There were no marks, no bloating - no signs of anything on any of the 3 Betta.

Last fish I added two 1" ridged white clam shaped shells (on advice of supposedly knowledgable clerk in Petsmart - she seemed to know a lot about Bettas) that I had for years - picked up on the beach in Florida - boiled for over 10 minutes.

The only thing that makes me suspicious about the water here (Langley, BC outside Vancouver in the Fraser Valley) is we need to run it for 3 minutes before drinking it - otherwise it looks a bit cloudy and doesn't taste as good.

My next door neighbor told me his wife has kept Bettas but she always boiled the water then let it sit to cool down - always kept a bucket of prepared water. He said she thought everyone everywhere had to boil all aquarium water - not due to knowledge of anything wrong with our water.

The 10g sits fishless on my desk - would love to get another but can't stand to see another die - especially upsetting after seeing one in a friends 7" orb that lived in mostly dirty water for 3 years.

I asked the clerk at PetSmart (she's not shy to disagree with some of the stores practices) if all the bettas that leave their store die in a few weeks and she said it comes in batches - some batches don't seem to do well but most they don't hear of any problems - and expect to as they offer free replacement for several months if your fish dies - or at least the Bettas.

There are no other fish in the 10g tank with the Betta - no fish, no snails - nothing.
I turn the aquarium light off all night - and part of the morning & evening as I noticed algae on the sand growing faster when it was on all day and all evening - the desk and aquarium are not near a window.

If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate help.
Thank you,
 

FreshyFresh

Global Moderator
Staff member
Jan 11, 2013
5,075
850
144
West Falls NY
Real Name
Joel
What are your actual numbers in PPM for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Do you have a means of measuring them? If not, you need to.

Water changes are always good provided your tap water is safe, dechlorinated and about the same temperature.

I too went through basically the same experience with male bettas in my planted, established 10g. Each only lasted weeks. Went from what appeared to be very happy, active and healthy, to found dead in the morning. Water params 0,0,10. Heartbreaking really.:(

I gave up on male bettas for now and have had a single dwarf flame gourami and a few other fish in my 10g.
 

Spring

Registered Member
May 26, 2013
2
0
0
Thanks for your reply - yes very upsetting as they seemed to be such healthy bettas - first a half moon - second and third crowntails - the crowntails seemed more robust and active - all blue ones.
I've been taking water to the petstore to measure - need to get my own - they use the test strips. I always use the dechlorinator measured into the bucket of water that first ran over five minutes - put water in tank (exact same temperature) by the cupful from the bucket right after adding dechlorinator. So you gave up too - I was even thinking of buying a new large plastic gas tank and bringing in 10g of water from petstore to see what happened or from my parents place 1/2 hour away - they love their tap water. I could do that - or boil the water but hate experimenting with live animals - hate to bring one in to die that would live if someone else bought it :( What should my water params be for a Betta? Is there some other test I could get - maybe some weird mineral they don't like - i live 5 minutes from the petstore in amongst their other customers - maybe my pipes? If so we & husky, 2 cats shouldn't drink it either - even after running tap for 3-5 m in first. Frustrating!
 

authmal

Pseudonovice
Aug 4, 2011
2,621
62
51
Phoenix, AZ
It sounds like you're taking water samples in, and the PetSmart is testing via strips, correct? Strips are not very accurate. You need to make sure you're water has 0 ammonia/nitrites, and some value for nitrates to be sure it's cycled. If it's not, then it's not cycled. What are you using to dechlorinate your water with? Seachem Prime binds chlorine, chloramine, and some metals in the water, so if you're using something else, you may want to try it. And since your water comes out of the tap cloudy and not tasting good until it runs a while, well, that implies a water quality issue right there. Get a freshwater master test kit, test your home water, and then your tank. Since you're betta-less :)cry:) and not in a huge hurry, Amazon or another online merchant will save you some money.

You may want to check with your city council to see if they can tell you what's in the water. As an alternative, you may want to invest in RO/DI water, either by buying it or installing a system (added bonus, it's much better tasting to drink) and some kind of buffer (to replace the minerals removed via the RO/DI process). The good news about those extra steps is that you'll know exactly what's going in to your water, the bad news is that it's an added cost.

If possible, try sourcing bettas elsewhere. Frankly, chain stores tend to do more volume, and less quality stock, and that could be an issue.
 

jasonfishaddict

AC Members
Jun 18, 2010
537
1
0
54
I live in King William county Virginia, USA
Real Name
Jason
I agree, be certain you don't have any water quality issues first. Did you try boiling the water? It's a good idea to try what others are successful with. Also buy filtered water for water changes. 10 gallons is a lot of water for 1 Betta so once you get the water right you'll know what to do should you decide to start another tank. A good test kit is a necessity, liquid is better than strips. BTW, Petsmart is notorious for bad batches of fish so keep trying.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 

authmal

Pseudonovice
Aug 4, 2011
2,621
62
51
Phoenix, AZ
Oh, have you started using any kind of aerosols in the house? Depending what they are, they could get in the water and complicate matters.
 

FreshyFresh

Global Moderator
Staff member
Jan 11, 2013
5,075
850
144
West Falls NY
Real Name
Joel
Thanks for your reply - yes very upsetting as they seemed to be such healthy bettas - first a half moon - second and third crowntails - the crowntails seemed more robust and active - all blue ones.
I often wonder if it has to do with their bodies trying to adjust from their horribly polluted (and often blue dyed) cups, to going into a nice clean new environment. Their internals slowly fail due to the huge nitrate change maybe?

Mine were dragon scale, crowntails. Red one, then a blue one.

OTOH, I've got 4 assorted female bettas in my 55 that have been doing amazingly well for weeks. They were all Petsmart purchases. 3 of them bought when I found them on sale at $0.99/ea. The first one was added shortly after setting up the tank.

Can anyone confirm how often Petsmart changes the betta cup water? Prolly varies by store. :(
 

Windy

AC Members
May 30, 2007
443
6
18
51
Theed Palace on Naboo
Real Name
Lazaro
The times I've been in Petsmart, I've seen Bettas both male and female in those little tubs with blue water in them. When it comes to changing the water in them, not sure. You may want to ask them how often they change the water in them. Sorry to hear you have lost a few bettas, but maybe the other posters are right. Try boiling the water or call your water company and see what is in the water you drink and tell them your trying to keep fish but they keep dying. also, what water conditioner/dechlor are you using? Use liquid test kits, strips are not accurate and a waste of money. I really don't know why they have those in the first place.
 

AshK

Muffin MIX NAO
Jun 24, 2008
481
0
16
35
California, PA
Bettas can be ridiculously robust, and ridiculously fragile.

Step 1: remove everything non aquarium designed from the tank, including the shells, glasses, vase, rock. Could be causing issues.

Step 2: get many more plants. Fast growers like anarchis, hygro can help protect the water quality during a cycle. You say you thought your tank was cycled, but since you (a) don't have a reliable test kit and (b) don't have any fish in the tank to continue biological bacteria growth, you HAVE to assume your tank is not cycled. That means, when you do get fish, there will be ammonia and nitrite spikes. So get a lot of plants to protect against this.

Step 3: get the API liquid freshwater test kit. Yes it's 30 bucks and complicated, but it saves you trips to the store for their (unreliable) test, fish death, lasts a long time, offers piece of mind, essentially it's priceless. Test the water from the tap. If its awful, you can buy water, or an ro/di unit as suggested. When you get your fish, use the test kit, keep a daily log of your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. With enough plants, you may never register ammonia and nitrite, and that's great. Bettas don't produce much waste but betta food fouls the water like no other. Never ever leave uneaten food in the tank.

Step 4: get bettas from reliable stock. You mentioned a fish store in the area, start there. Ask if they have any, where they come from. If they are locally bred, contact the breeder and ask for his/her help. See if there's a local aquarium club too.

Step 5: the temperature might be an issue. Pet store bettas are more often less than 72 degrees! Raising the temperature should be gradual, match your tank temp to the cup then raise the tank temp over a week. Bettas digestion is linked to temperature so if this petstore betta goes from freezing, to suddenly over fed and hot, I can see a potential issue.

Additonal info: feed freeze dried blood worms only occasionally, they are linked to bloating. Be hyper vigilant to fin rot, which can be hard to recognize and kills. Stir up your sand, could develop pockets of harmful gas. Live food is always good. Stay away from double tail bettas, they are not robust, along the same lines fin rot can be hard to see on a crown tail betta. Indian almond leaves are great for bettas.
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store