Slew of Questions (Cycling, Stocking, and Care)

20. Easier to keep parameters stable. 20 long may be preferred, depending on what you decide to stock with. If by "box filter" you're referring to a hang on back style filter, get yourself an AC 20 or C2. They're the best bang for the buck, and the AC20 is probably the most versatile HOB filter on the market. Research the individual species you're interested in before buying them, because you may find that they're incompatible in some way.

Snails and shrimp are clean up crew. As long as your tank is fairly mature, you won't need to feed much. Snails *may* try to escape (I've had 3 attempts in 2 years), but it's not something to worry about.

Don't do a fish in cycle if you can avoid it. It's just harsh. Look at it this way, do you use spray paint in a small enclosed room without ventilation? No. Why not? The fumes are bad for you, and can kill you. Same thing with ammonia in the water when you do a fish in cycle.

+1 with everything authmal said. For easily accessible and easy to maintain plants i would recommend anubias and crypts. They are low light "beginner" plants thats dont require much more than low light. I have anubias and all i have is a single t8 light fixture and i dose API CO2 booster everyday( just 1ml for every 10gallons). They are slow growers. Ive had mine for about 3-4 weeks and im just getting a new leaf

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TheLindseyPanda said:

First off, do not feel obligated to answer all of these questions. Even if you only know the answer to one of these, I will be forever grateful.
Some info on my upcoming setup:

• 10 or 20 gallon tank (still deciding)
• Will end up stocking with dwarf gouramis and either snails or ghost shrimp
• Will do 50% water changes weekly (correct me if this is not a good ratio)
• Will get some form of box filter

Now to the questions. I divided them into categories

STOCKING:

1. Will the dwarf gouramis and the snails or shrimp get along. I believe they are supposed to be peaceful community fish, but correct me if I am wrong.
2. I am hesitant on the idea of snails. It is my knowledge that they will climb up the sides of the aquarium. Would they attempt to escape (intentionally or not) by climbing up to the hood and escaping through the hole where the filter sits, or perhaps where wiring/tubing exits the aquarium? Or will they only climb out of the water for air?
3. When feeding the gouramis, I would prefer to feed a staple diet of flake variety food. I can supplement it if necessary (please inform me if I must do this). Will the snails and or shrimp be ok with eating these leftovers? Or must I find a specialty food for them? This will be the basis for deciding between the two...

CYCLING:

1. I would like to do a fish-in cycle. I have read up about it and heard that hardy fish are good for this kind of cycle. There has been some controversy on the internet of whether gouramis are hardy fish or not. Could I get a final answer? Are these fish OK for a fish-in cycle or do I need to use some other kind of fish? If so, what kind would you recommend?
2. After the tank is cycled, how long until I add the gouramis (if I can't use them for the cycle)? And can they be compatible with the fish for the cycle?
3. I know that using live plants for the cycle will speed things up. Is this true? What kinds would be best that are relatively inexpensive and easily accessible?

Please note that I will probably respond to your responses with more questions. Sorry, I'm a total newbie like that:goldfish:

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I also agree with everything authmal said. Generally, the larger the tank the easier it is to maintain. A 20g also allows for many more stocking options than a 10g. I'm also going to assume that a box filter is referring to a hang-on the back (HOB) type filter. AC's or AquaClear's seem to be the preferred HOB by most. I know I wouldn't give mine up for anything but a canister filter. For a 20g I would recommend an AC 30, if you opt for the 10g an AC 20 should be fine. Also 50% is a good ratio to aim for. Sometimes tanks will need either more or less depending on how heavily stocked they are.

Stocking:
1. Dwarf Gouramis are typically considered a community fish, although that term generally applies to them living with other fish. Inverts can be a different story though. The gourami's may try to eat the shrimp, but with enough plants or hiding places they could survive just fine.
2. It is possible for a snail to make an escape attempt. Personally I don't use hoods on my tanks and I've never had a snail crawl out. Although several fish have tried jumping
3. The gouramis should be fine on just a flake food. I'm sure they wouldn't be opposed to the occasional treat of frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp though.

Cycling:
1. Don't do a fish-in cycle. It is detrimental to the health of your fish and should they survive the cycle they will likely have a shortened life. I recommend reading this thread on cycling a tank. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?84598-Freshwater-cycling
2. Assuming you go with the fishless cycle, as soon as your cycle is complete the gouramis and other stock can be added to the tank.
3. From my understanding, it is true in the sense that live plants will utilize ammonia, etc. thus reducing the bioload in the tank. Also depending on where they are purchased from they can have some beneficial bacteria living on them already.

The best plants for consuming ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates and the fast growing stem plants and floating plants as they absorb nutrients directly from the water column. However, they also typically require higher light and could require an upgraded fixture. You would need to research the particular plant's requirements that you are interested in. Common low light beginner plants are anubias, crypts, java ferns, java moss. However, low light doesn't rule out all stem plants, for example I've had wisteria thrive in very low light conditions.

I think that about covers it. Feel free to ask more questions.

+1 to all! Great advice you're getting! Just like to add that amano shrimp would be a good choice of shrimp with the dwarf gourami as they get larger than say cherry shrimp also a honey gourami could be a nice choice of gourami for similar reasons. Plants may actually slow down the cycling process as they absorb the ammonia before bacteria can grow to eat it but they do provide a safety buffer too. Please choose the kind and effective fishless cycle over fish in cycle, do it for the fishies. :tropicalfish::hearts:

TheLindseyPanda said:

@authmal @ktrom13 @axelrod12
Ok, to start I thank everyone for their extremely helpful opinions and advice. I might just skip the shrimp/snails altogether. They would seem to be more trouble than they would be worth...I won't need a cleanup crew because I can do the cleanup myself and I would feel forever guilty if a snail escaped or a shrimp was eaten...
So fish-in cycle is definitely out. I apologize for my typical newbie-ness. I will read up more on fishless cycles. I am also confused however. On an the sticky Freshwater Cycling, it said to do a 75-90 % water change after you were sure you established your cycle. Wouldn't that kill your cycle? Again, I apologize.
Next up. The only LFS in my area that is not PetSmart (I refuse to buy live animals from PetSmart, but that's another story...) used to infect my mom's tank with a ton of these tiny little snails. Any tips on preventing this/getting rid of them once I get the fish?
Last, with this master test kit http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754034&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No would it come with the stuff to test the aquarium more than once. I know I will have to do a lot of testing, so I need to know...
Again, thank you for all of your advice. Keeping freshwater fish in this type of setup is a lot more complex than I was used to with my one little betta...

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The reason for the large water change after your fishless cycle is to remove the large amount of nitrates that will be present due to all the ammonia added during the cycle. Beneficial bacteria establish themselves primarily on surfaces in your tank, particularly filter media. Doing a large water change doesn't do much in terms of removing the bacteria.

The first test kit you linked should include a ph, high range ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit. It is the most common kit used and is very effective. Avoid test strips. Also you will need to look for a bottle of pure ammonia or other source of ammonia for the cycle. The little bottles that come in the test kit contain another chemical that tests for ammonia. They aren't actually a source of ammonia.

Those tiny snails usually hitchhike in on plants and such from the LFS's tanks. I've never heard of them coming in on a fish though.


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Just some other general advice to go along with what has been said. The bottle of ammonia available at Ace hardware is great (it's huge though). Whatever you use make sure there are no surfactants or added scents or anything, just good old ammonia. I would suggest that you do a fishless cycle but also ask your LFS for a little gravel and put it in a bag in your filter. It will speed your cycle up by a week or more! Just keep the ammonia levels in the green until the tank cleans up that high level of ammonia each day, and is able to clean the nitrites up in the same time period.

Next, when you do your water changes DO NOT rinse out your filter media with tap water. I try to clean my filters out every month or so by wringing my sponge or other filter media out in the water I just siphoned out of my tank.

One other thing, if your going to get a 20 long as suggested, take a good look at a 29. Same footprint and again more stocking options easier to maintain etc.


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