Spots on my neon Tetras

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c_long20

AC Members
Nov 23, 2013
6
0
1
Alabama
I have looked around on the old interweb and can't seem to pinpoint whats going on. These spots came up about 2 weeks ago after a few deaths in the tank. I had 3 gouramis die within 3 weeks, I found out that the crab was attacking them. One of the gouramis went missing, the crab was eating it and hid it in the log. This spiked my ammonia and the tank hasn't been right since. The other 2 gouramis got sick after and were quarantined but still died. The crab just died for no apparent reason about a week after. The smaller one has more spots than the other. Today the smaller one has developed a red spot that is not pictured, I think one of the spots may have popped.

ph-7.0ish, ammonia-.1, nitrate-0, nitrite-0, kh-100, gh-60. My water is a little too hard, but it has been like that for several months. I used the api test kit with the chemicals not the test strips. So my numbers may be a bit off because of color judgement.

I have done a 40% water change every weekend since this happened and a 10% change every other day. I added 1tbsp of aquarium salt at each 40% change. I also raised the tank temp from 79 to 82*f, I thought it may be ich. This freshwater tank has been going for around 8 months. 6 different tetras, 2 chinese algae eaters, 1 glass catfish, 1 snail. They haven't been quarantined yet. All live plants. Fluval U4 submersed filter with biomax and carbon inserts changed in rotation every week. I also have an air pump with 14" bubble wand. Natural sunlight gets on one side of the tank for around 3 hours if its sunny out. t5 UV light and t5 colormax is on for 16hours of daytime and the bubble wand has blue led for moonlight simulation. The fish get tetra flakes at 6pm every night, freeze dried blood worms every other night, tubifex worms once a week.

I hope this is enough information. Before I try any changes or treatment I want some "expert" opinions about whats going on. Because a picture is worth a thousand words, I attached a couple pictures of the tetras.

IMG_3625.jpg IMG_3624.jpg IMG_3623.jpg IMG_3622.jpg
 

Turbosaurus

AC Members
Dec 26, 2008
705
1
18
Yonkers, NY
Its definitely NOT ich, they are much too big. You are still doing everything right- the increase in temp to stimulate the metabolism and immune system, add salt to irritate flesh and stimulate the fish's natural slime coat protection -

Its hard to tell from the photos- but these look like bites- like exposed swolen flesh in places where the scales have been removed via trauma... do you have anyone in there with a little mouth that could be nipping them? are you sure the crab bit the dust? Could one of your assorted tetras be a tiger barb? sometimes the larger species of danios can tend to be a little nippy- Ive been doing this a long time and am relatively knowledgeable- really looks like bites to me.

Can you try and get some shots of other fish in the tank- even if they're blurry I can usually ID the swirls if they're common LFS stock...
 

Turbosaurus

AC Members
Dec 26, 2008
705
1
18
Yonkers, NY
Did you add anyone new at this time- even a fish that should be peaceful- I'm studying these photos and these are almost certainly bites. Its hard to tell, but my gut is screaming aggression/predation- I think those spots we are seeing is otherwise un-infected healthy flesh where the scales were torn off- obviously with any wound some will get infected (like the red one you mention), but most look like there is no intense irritation which would match with your nice clean water parameters....

Usually this story goes the other way- someone insists their fish are being attacked and I try and convince them their water is funky and causing infection- but not this time. I think you do have good parameters and someone is eating your tetras- or at least tourturing them.
 

c_long20

AC Members
Nov 23, 2013
6
0
1
Alabama
Got you some more pictures. Could they be residual marks from previous bites? Maybe from the Gourami or crab. The crab is definitely gone. He was in the corner of the tank lifeless, he got a porcelain burial. I don't plan on replacing the crab as he didn't really do what the store guy said he would do, he was always in hiding, and he was aggressive. What about the algae eater, could he be biting? The larger one is about 5" long. Anyway, thanks for the help. never would've thought biting.

IMG_2111.JPG IMG_2089.JPG IMG_3631.jpg IMG_3635.jpg
 

c_long20

AC Members
Nov 23, 2013
6
0
1
Alabama
I definitely have a biter. The smaller black neon with the most spots died while I was at work. I found him behind the log and mostly eaten. His eyes were gone and most of his flesh had been eaten from his bones. I just don't know who is doing it. The only thing I can come close to is maybe the algae eater. Help.
 

Turbosaurus

AC Members
Dec 26, 2008
705
1
18
Yonkers, NY
I dont think its your algae eaters- I think they did quickly strip the dead body- they are scavengers after all- but I dont think they caused the death- the algae eaters can get aggressive, but mostly its territorial and toward each other and they have wide round mouths- I just dont see them as the responsible party. These look like small pinches- like the mouths on your black or serpae tetra might inflict. Its not common, they are generally considered peaceful community fish. I know this is far from a forensic wound analysis, if in fact they are wounds, but its the only guess I have based on the size and shape of the spots. The only way to know how old the wounds are would have been to notice when they fist appeared. Id suggest counting the wounds so you can tell if anything new happens and keeping an eye on the fish to see if they are they being chased or nipped at.

When you look closely, what do you think about my wound theory- does it play out in person? Does it look like swollen but otherwise healthy flesh where the scales were bit off to you? How long have the fish been in the tank together?
 

excuzzzeme

Stroke Survivor '05
Chinese Algae Eaters are known for sucking the slime coat off resident fish and can become aggressive (but usually to their own kind). They do not make for good community tank-mates. I doubt salt and an increase in temp is doing any good at all since this is not a parasitic problem. The glass cat can be harmed by the salt and any other scaleless fish that might be in the tank. It certainly isn't healthy for the plants either but not likely to cause them much harm.

Not being able to clearly identify the spots causes me to be skeptical about any possible treatments. From what I can see, if this is not damage from injury, the other possibility is that it is fungal in nature. I would treat with an antibiotic food and a finrot medication in the water and watch for improvements. I don't see the use of an antibiotic as being a bad choice even for a general treatment. Erythromycin is a good choice when you aren't sure of what you are dealing with. "Polyguard" is another versatile treatment that will treat many issues.

My most major concern is the Ammonia readings. Your current level is in the toxic range and can burn gills. With the water changes it should fall to safe (trace) amounts. Maintain sufficient water changes as required to keep the ammonia levels down. If they do not come down, check your water at the source. Ammonia is used by water supply companies as it lingers longer than chloromines and chlorine. Using "Prime" water conditioner may help as well.
 
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