My first casualty - any ideas on potential cause appreciated

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Mordred

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Feb 27, 2004
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My female ram died today - only had her a week. She is the first fish that I have lost, and I am gutted.

I bought the pair of rams just over a week ago. For the first week the male chased the female constantly and she kept hiding. I was worried that he was harrassing her too much - particularly as he wouldnt let her feed.

I watched her very closely for the week, and tried to ensure that I waited until she was close before adding food, to make sure she got some before he chased her off.

Over the weekend she looked a lot more relaxed and didn't swim away from him -a complete change in behaviour. I thought that she was perhaps thinking about breeding. Her colours looked stronger, and we finally thought the pair had settled in.

This morning she wouldnt come out for food. She was hiding in the back corner of the tank behind some bogwood.

This evening, my wife came back from work to find her at the surface of the tank, seemingly gasping for air. She then died very shortly afterwards.

Couldn't see anything obvious wrong with her at all. All of the other fish in the tank, including the male ram, are looking fine.
Just checked the water chemistry and everything still looks within normal ranges.

I know with this little info I wont get to an exact diagnosis, but a list of possible causes would be really helpful so I have some idea what might have gone wrong.

I don't know whether to get another female or not, and would really appreciate some thoughts.

Thanks in advance. :sad
 

travelinman1969

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Oct 23, 2003
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Sounds like major stress. I don't know about Rams but I know in platies, mollies, swords, etc. the 2 females per male rule is a good one, sometimes 3 females to a male, depending on how agressive the male is, a.k.a. testosterone. :p This makes the females less stressed due to too much courtship. 1 on 1 and the female will usually get pretty stressed. Some males are melow but not usually.
 

LGooley

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I don't know much about rams but I have heard they are very sensitive and that even the smallest change in water chemistry can be a problem. Check temp, pH, ammonia, nitrite & nitrate. Have any of them had even the smallest of changes? Have you changed food lately. Added anything (other than them)? Sorry I am not more help.
 

Hound

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Ram species typically pair off for life so having a pair is usually a good idea. Your tank seems like it should have been large enough and has enough hiding areas that aggresion shouldn't have been an issue. If your water tests fine for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate it is possible that she was carrying an internal parasite. Also since she had been being chased she may have stressed to the point that she was just weakened with devastating affects.
 

Mordred

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Feb 27, 2004
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Full tank history and specs are in the signature link.

Temp, and water chemistry (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH) all checked immediately this happened, and all unchanged.

Also, the cardinals, ottocinclus, cories and the male ram are all also supposed to be sensitive to changes in the above yet all seem fine.

Didnt have a chance to check whether the gills were reddish - what would that signify?

In terms of food changes -
I usually feed flake and catfish pellets, but the rams initially wouldnt eat either of those, so I have been feeding a little frozen bloodworm every other day since putting the rams in just over a week ago.

the evening before the Ram died I put 2 small algae wafers in for the first time - all the fish, including the female ram had a good dig at them and pushed them most of the way around the tank.

As hound said, I had heard that Rams pair for life, hence had only bought one male and one female.

Do fish tend to go downhill that fast with intestinal parasites or stress? Also, how catching are the parasites - can I expect problems with the rest of the fish in the tank? They all looked ok this morning.
 

~*LuvMyKribs*~

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I bought what i belived to be a pair of bolivian rams.... and shortly (within a few weeks) thereafter the female died. Same thing as yours- no particular signs anything was wrong.... she wasnt even being bullied that much.

Anywho that was a year ago and i still have the male to this day.

Sometimes some fish are just weaker, and the stress from the move can impact them. Just watch your other fish closely and you should be okay.

After your sure the male will be fine maybe you can try adding another female. :)
 

cattlegrid_79

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Mar 24, 2004
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I'd be wary about adding another single female. I've kept quite a few rams. It would appear that even though everything you read about them says they are "shy, retiring fish", i've found the males to be quite aggressive, especially to females of their own species.

The first time this happened to me, I had one male and one female. The male harrassed the female so much that she died. I tried to put another female in with him and the same thing happened.

I have subsequently found that the best thing you can do in introducing new females to a single male is to put 4 or 5 females in with him and let him pair off with one, then remove the others otherwise he will be aggressive towards them.

This is not an ideal situation for home aquariums, as it is quite hard to "test drive" a few females from a shop and then take the others back. The LFS will not usually go for this. It may be worth seeing if you can find a new home for your single male and then buying an already paired up M&F (or 2 or 3 of the same sex).
 

Mordred

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Feb 27, 2004
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Thanks for all the comments so far.

Sounds like adding another lone female is probably not a great move then.

Is the male likely to be ok on his own?
At the moment he seems fine, but I dont want him to develop antisocial or unhappy behaviour
 
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